Let's Talk Cyclecars

Herb,
Quite well noticed! I was blinded by magnificient design and realisation so didn't saw the obvious! Maybe, they could later improve steering system according to some of Ackerman principles?
Ciao, Zoran

 

Looks right to me. Anyway many modern race cars are set up with anti Ackermann.

 

My bad--didn't notice that the spindle point of rotation was so far inboard.
Once again I need to remove my foot from my pie hole!
But theoretically wouldn't it be better to have the ball joint points co-axial with the steering U joint? Looks like there would have to be a heavily loaded spline in the drive axle--
Please understand that what has been done is beautiful and a ton of work has been put into the whole project IMHO, and I'm not trying to belittle the car in any way.

Shoe needs more seasoning to be palatable.

Herb

 

The biggest problem I see is the scrub radius from the ball joints to the tire contact point. I'm not sure what you mean by "the steering U joint".

 

Well, CV joint would probably be better from an explanation standpoint, but what I thought was something else is half of a common U joint, the cross and the other yoke being missing. So it would appear that if the joint was all there, the two pivot points probably would look to be in line.

Herb

 

I take it it's the outer U-joint on the drive shaft. I wonder what that is going to be. I'd be inclined to cheat and use a double-Cardan type out of a Land Rover or something. But I agree: there seems to be too little KPI, and consequently quite a large scrub radius. I'd expect to see something much like torque steer as a result, as well as squirreliness under braking.

By the way, what are those things at the ends of the tie rod? I've seen them on early steering, especially drag links, but have never had an explanation of what they are all about.

The outer CV can be off the steering axis. In fact, if for some reason it is outboard of the steering axis it would reduce the effective angle of the joint when steering, at the expense of a small angularity at the inner joint. As every effort is made to get the steering axis as far outboard as the parts will allow, it's more likely that the joint will be inboard of the steering axis, in which case the opposite would apply i.e. a slight increase in angularity at the outer joint plus a slight angularity in the opposite direction at the inner joint. I think this is all pretty conventional; I'd expect most cars to have CV joints slightly off the steering axis.

In any case some sort of lengthwise movement would need to be accommodated in the drive shafts, be it splines or, as I understand is more common, "plunge" type CV joints, which have a small axial degree of freedom built in. This is due not to the position of the steering axis but to the geometry of the front suspension, in this case the DeDion axle, whose length between hubs remains constant.

 

I have a '77 GMC motorhome that uses the Toronado front wheel drive. The outer CV joint has no lateral motion it's done with the inner joint.

This car looks to be using a conventional u-joint. You can see one end of it and it's in line with the ball joints.

 

Hello,
Something similar?
An F.W.D. Model T Racer, A Poor Man’s Miller
http://theoldmotor.com/?p=65858

... and, on following pictures:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/fwd1-jpg.1813514/
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/fwd2-jpg.1813515/

Ciao, Zoran

 

...and, a few more with similar FWD and FORD engine!

Ciao, Zoran

 

I thought the Ackerman was probably off at first glance. But then I saw where the king pin line was and if you look the pivot on the arm and draw the line through the kindpin or spindle pivot it looks to be right on. Just the angle on the arm that made me do a double take. Very nice work.

 

Love your work and always enjoy seeing your progress pictures.

 

[GALLERY=][/GALLERY]
Building some Amilcar type of Cyclecars using a Buick 8 and Jag 6s.

 

I really like the idea and would love to do the same myself. The Amilcar, though, was a very light car with an alum. 4 banger. The Buick or Jag. engine would not suit this design with such skinny light weight tires. A 1 liter 4 cylinder would be much more appropriate. Those engines would be more like a Bentley than an Amilcar.

 

If you need the FWD Midget Plans find a copy of this magazine, lots of illustrations and instructions. Bob

 

Picked up this wheel I was told it was from an airplane, one more and you'd have the front wheels for a cyclecar. Bob

 

, I was lucky enough to receive an invitation to the festival of Slowth , a celebration of the cyclecar , this takes place about every two years Wales .
Its format is a regularity run up the drive of the house , a cyclecar tour and treasure hunt around the gardens and grounds , and this year competitive lawn mowering , using vintage machines , there is also eating and socialising ,

So for the first time the Jappic recreation left the garage despite it not finished it was very well received , with a lot of interest , I also had all my research and build pictures in folders so people could compare the period pictures with the current progress ,

here is a link to my pictures https://www.flickr.com/photos/55288722@N00/sets/72157644336202087/

link to Stefan's pictures https://www.flickr.com/photos/stefanmarjoram/sets/72157644336858518/

link to a post on prewarcar http://www.prewarcar.com/prewar-my-prewarcar/spot-a-pre-war-car/festival-of-slowth-2014-023381.html

link to a post on Oldmotor http://theoldmotor.com/?p=120624

 

Good grief that looks like fun. Thanks. What's the object of the lawn mowers? To see who mowed slower, better, laughed loudest? I love the tricycle looking mower.

 

The purpose was to get a cheap lawn cutting job!! LOL

 

Some of these used motorcycle wheels. Wondering what contemporary (Available on craigslist or in a salvage yard) wheels would be good. I have a few HD FLH wheels, just wondering about making axle stubs and what bearing to use.

 

I might have a car show at my house and see if everyone will mow my grass.

 

The mowing was judged by the very pretty head gardener of the estate ,
It was a combination of machine, skill and style , it was won by a father and son team who did a union jack flag on their patch of grass .
I also coveted that art deco mower ,

 

I started by looking for sidecar wheels as these normally have a stub axle we can use , found plenty of singles but pairs were a problem as you can imagine , then I was lucky enough to be offered a pair of front hubs from a veteran Humber I then had these copied by a local engineering company to use for the rears , these fit onto a taper onto the solid rear axle

 

Hello Ade,
Lucky you!​

Thank you on links to wonderful photos and video-clips of beloved cycle-cars gathered at Festival of Slowth! Beautiful cars and motorcycles, but grass-cutters, too (some look as flying scooters, from old Cartoons about Flash Gordon)... I could cry watching them at screen, but not being present there. Maybe, I would cry even more if was present but just as spectator...
Your Jappic is magnificent art of machinery and now looks even more gorgeous at open space, at nice countryside between other cycle-cars!

Regards, Zoran​

 

... something wrong with my comp, or my memebership - or nothing happened here for some time?
Zoran

 

A good while ago I made a post to request information and comments on an unusual prototype here in this thread. Here it is:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5553227&highlight=hinged frame#post5553227
Since then I've found a couple of links with a smattering of details, but no engineering drawings unfortunately:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrscharroo/6014628651/in/photostream
and
http://www.isetta-owners-club-gb.com/rare_7.htm
Although the Prvenac car is a bit larger than cyclecar dimensions, I thought its clever design might capture someone's imagination, as it has mine.
"So, what do you little maniacs want to do first?"
Zerk, Jul 24, 2012 Report​

--------------------- ------------------------------

Hello Zerk,
and other interested!​

A few words about PRVENAC – could be translated as „The First-born (son)“, almost from the first hand! Trough long period, from early youth, I was interested in that micro-automobile (bubble-var), after I saw one not-so-good newspapers photo... Than, some 15 years ago I was positioned almost in the middle of history! I met one of the creators and son of another, got a lot of documents and fresh memories from the main actors. Than, being involved in lift industry (elevators), I became familiar with company “DAVID PAJIC – DAKA”, where Prvenac is produced in 1958... Because of my hobbies, I was connected with Institute for Engines and Engined Vehicles based at Faculty of Mechanical Engineering, as part of Belgrade's University – where all testing was done...
Next time about that story, but just a few sentences about Prvenac.
It was designed, constructed and tested as prototype for mass-produced “people-auto”, in a style of bubble-cars popular in Europe during years after WW2 period. There were negotiations with BMW, that failed: they didn't want competition for Isetta and even didn't want to sell components (engine and transmission). There were contacts with Yugoslavian industry, but nobody was seriously interested. Anyway, era of such micro-cars was near its end in Europe and they were replaced by small but real automobiles. Even in Serbia, started production of FIAT 600d under license, by factory ZASTAVA, later more known abroad by infamous business affair with selling YUGO in USA...
Therefore – everything was finished with this first prototype, that soon disappeared: probably that many components were removed (stolen), and the rest was sent to junk-yard... Only some curt-cases stayed for some time, about authorship, patents and intellectual-property rights.
Designed was the second prototype with more aerodynamic body of metal monocoque construction, with better suspension (coil-over-chock springs), better engine and transmission. Except small model for testing in air-tunnel, nothing was made. I still have blue-prints for that second prototype, got from than alive creator.
A copy from old newspaper is attached (the same one that started my occupation with Prvenac)...

Ciao, Zoran​

 

The newly protoed 'Elio' bears some resemblance to 'Sportsmen', and 'Super Modifieds', with its narrow 1 person width, center steering...2 occupant design places passenger behind the driver, maybe eligible for the Sturgis run. (wear proper attire...)

We have some open wheeled front suspension, (independent 'A' arms, ala 'Street Rod') and its center rear wheel seems to emulate an extreme narrowed rear, (just at a glance)

The 85 MPG ploy may be just the ticket for drafting some of the 'progressive types' into our fenderless circle...Get their feet wet...then pour 'em into a 'T' bucket.

 

I now have a Facebook page for the Jappic recreation

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Jappic-recreation/288202517984662

 

Saxon (Saxson) steering gear for sale on ebay - would be great for a cycle car build. Check out Model T Haven listings. It would be mine if it wasn't a left hander

 

Are you sure you can't disassemble and rotate the crenk 180?