Technical T Steering problem, solutions ? suggestions ?

Blue, I'm sure you'll get it figured out.

Some folks on here give me shit for thinking before building, but I generally don't have this type of issue by doing it that way. "Just build it and figure it out - less thinking and more building- you're overthinking it" is pretty common stuff I hear on the Hamb.

There's a few ways to skin your cat, but the biggest obstacle and easiest to correct is a different axle with not so much drop. You've basically got two different schools of lowering thought that were never devised to work together. One is the dropped axle and the other is the spring behind hung off the bones. You need to pick one or blaze a trail and make parts. I could see you fabbing the steering arms to get around this. But watch the tierod to shackles with them at 90* and the scrub line.

In silent ricks photo, he raised the perch to get a lowered ride height- vs you lowering the spring mounts to the bones. It's a trade off.

The one pic above, with the tie rod thru the bones- there is no spring in the way, that's a torsion bar set up. Your spring is a reasonable distance behind the axle and it looks good, the RatRods that have the goofy proportions have circumnavigated your exact problem by moving the axle forward or spring mounts further back. And that looks like shit !

You could look at chip foose's roadster steering that doesn't utilize a tierod from spindle to spindle.

 

Atwater Mike, you are thinking of the rear axle acting like a anti-sway bar with split rods, as the front axle is an I-bean it will not act as an anti-sway bar because the centre section allows torsional twist but if it were a tube front axle it would act as anti-roll bar. I will take some pics of this and post to show it.
My 26 T has split bone front and back. JW

 

This shows the travel I have with the split front bones. One tire is just touching the floor and there is a very small amount of flex from the rear axle set-up and a small amount of chassis twist plus half the weight is on the left rear tire, also the front shocks are at the opposite limits of there travel . JW

 

Yes, I will figure it out. I knew I would have this issue when I started. I basically copied what Shadow Rods did with their LRHC chassis when they built the blue colored RPU for the Street Rodder road tour a few years back, and they also have plenty of other cars on the road with the tie rod above the frame as pictured above in the pictures I posted.

I was hoping that I could put my steering tie rod somewhere else but it looks like they went that way for a good reason.
In the end I believe that's what I'll end up doing.

I was inspired to some degree by these cars
Of course my build is differing in a few ways.

And there is no room under my little car for the type of steering Foose did and I shudder to think of the trouble I'd have trying to figure that all out

 

You could pull it off tie rod over the frame if the balancer don't complain about it.
Almost looks like they may have swapped and flipped the arms left to right !

 

I think maybe they did flip the arms, and they definitely look longer than usual.
I believe I can clear my balancer on the Y Block.
I'm going to give them a call on the lower steering arms this week.

 

Steering arms have been identified and ordered. I believe they will work for what I need as they did for the Shadow rods guys. Tie rod will run across the top of the frame behind the rad.
Pete and Jakes extra long forged steering arms.

 

So did they show up yet ?

 

No. still waiting Takes a little while to get things to us up here in Canada.

 

I skimmed so forgive me if this is a repeat. What about using hairpins instead of bones?

 

I fabricated the bones myself for a look and a theme.
I designed my rear suspension with bones along the same lines, mounted outside the frame matching the front, as part of a triangulated 4 link style rear suspension.
I really don't like 4 bars or hairpins for that matter.
This will work out.

 

Really looking forward to your solution here, I bet it will match the rest of the build. JW

 

This is a local car built by the Rolling Bones guys.


Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App Sucka!!!

 

The difference between what the rolling bones guys have done on that car and on others and what I have done is my dropped axle.
I have a 4" dropped axle which the rolling bones cars do not.
That is why I need to do something different than they have done.
Your picture should be in the rolling bones front suspension thread.

 

I don't know if these guys aren't catching and just reading over the fact the your axle is dropped

or

If they just don't understand how and why the dropped axle makes it difficult.

I had a discussion with a big name pro builder and we were discussing the topic of ride height. So I asked him what the relationship or dimension was "in side view "from the top of the frame to center of the spindle. He was confused and never thought about this relationship at all. To me this seems what ride height is all about - that relationship and its all chassis at that point. It encompasses everything you might need to measure or fab.

 

It's just a picture man. If I recall correctly you already had to redo your rear suspension once because it didn't work? Stop trying to reinvent the wheel and go with what's proven to work. Remember, you started a thread asking for help...

 

Hah! If I ever ran over a boulder that big, the example might be valid...
My chassis are a little stiffer than that, also...

 

It's just a picture, true, but it isn't any help and it's not relevant to this thread.

Yes I redid my rear suspension. And if you were paying attention at all you would know that I did so after having essentially copied the rear suspension from a car that came out of a pro shop.

The changes to the rear suspension I made are my own design which works well and came after it was pointed out to me that what I had copied from the "pro" built car was less than great and was not going to work.

With my front suspension , I am not trying to re-invent any damned thing any more than I did for the rear.

I will end up doing what the Shadow Rods gang did as with the pictures I posted earlier.

Yes, I posted looking for help or ideas thinking maybe there was an alternative to what I knew may have to be the final solution.

It was also pointed out in my thread well before you posted that the Rolling Bones guys do not use a dropped axle and I have a 4" dropped axle.

It changes things a lot.

So thanks for the "help" and the flawed observation too

 

Chassis Engineering bolt on deep drop arms will prob clear. Way better than a blind hole like the ones you have posted.

 

I agree, I like the bolt through design of the CE dropped arms. And I looked at them, and they do not have a deeper than 3 3/4" drop arm available which is what I have now. Not deep enough, hence the above the frame and behind the rad solution.

 

You might want to try them anyway. The drop # on those is deceiving.

 

Ok then, good luck with your "flawed" front suspension. I'm sure you'll figure something out.

 

Mike, you stated in post #27 that the chassis does not move more than 1/2" (chassis roll) with split bones on an I-beam axle. The pic I put up shows it moves a hell of a lot more than that. So forget the chassis twist etc, this was to show you and Larry that you need more than that 1/2''. With split rear bones I get about 1'' in the rear so the front end must make up the rest on uneven ground life angling into a driveway etc. Larry, please make sure you have enough clearance between your tie rod and the top of your frame. Cheers. JW

 

I would appreciate if you would refrain from posting if you have nothing constructive to offer.
In other words go away and bother someone else.

The front suspension I am building is not a lot different than many others have done previously.

 

Will do, thanks. At least I'm not going at this blind, it has been done before

 

I think that you could easily cure your issue if you restructured your wishbone perch mount boss. I dont know what boss you used but it appears like a model A, If you check out 32-34 wishbones you will notice that the perch mount boss is offset, by using these ends flipped upsidedown you can retain the axle position but increase the tie rod clearance. You can also use 35-40 wishbone ends with a higher clearance offset but you will have to use the 35-39 style perch pins because of the thicker boss. Might be a simpler fix by changing ends than trying to find arms.

 

Thanks Dick , I appreciate the input. One of the problems is that I'm not using any factory parts. I have fabricated everything you see, wishbones and everything else.
Only the spring, shackles, axle and spindles-brake kit are items I purchased.

Being a one off type thing I am experiencing some of the usual issues that come up.
I believe it will all work out.

 

I took that picture because you stated concern about running the tie rod under the spring perches. This car has been on the road for many years and it seems to not be an issue. Yes it has an un-dropped axle. I am aware of that. I am also aware that you have a dropped axle.

It would seem that you would have addressed this in the design phase as the tie rod is a pretty important piece of the puzzle?

You state that you are not reinventing the wheel yet you opted to make all new parts rather than using proven Ford components?

Don't let your ego get in the way of the solution.

And again, my suggestions were only offered as help. Everyone should get to drive a hotrod that they have built.

 

Very good, I'm glad we cleared all that up. I do appreciate the help or suggestions. When you first posted the picture it didn't come with much explanation at all.

I wanted to build all the parts myself for a couple of reasons the main one being that I can ,and I dislike buying something I can build.
I have broken down and bought a few components simply because the amount of work building everything can get overwhelming at times.

I did address the tie rod in the design phase, as I said before, I built what I did because I saw what the Shadow Rods guys did and liked it.
They also fab everything and only use pre made parts such as the steering arms etc.

They run the tie rod behind the rad above the frame and I thought that possibly I could make it work in a different fashion.

It seems like I'll end up doing it the way they did.

I've been building and fabricating my whole life, by this point ego isn't really a factor.

When I finally get to drive it, it'll all have been worth it.