Projects Edith d' Plymouth: restyling my P-15

Thanks, but I was talking about my '48 2 dr Plym. The fenders might spring out enough to clear, but I'd imagine it would be a 2 man job to make sure something doesn't s****e everytime you pull it open.

 

OH...I didn't recall that you had a P-15 too. I'll go look it up later. I totally misread your post bud.

Anyhow, I was a tool designer in a long-ago age. Little mechanisms are still a hobby.

The fenders will spread automatically when released, & spread more as raised, but it'll still be a problem in any wind at all. That nose will make a big sail! I'll have to have a guide-rod system, or maybe with little wheels and tracks to make it work.

 

No dramatic photos today. I did get to run some more stripper on the cowl, and it's getting cleaner, but slowly. Also detailing around the windows takes some real time.

I've started loosening the body mounts. I see I have one that's pretty much a lump of rust shaped like a melting bolt.

I got the whole headliner, windlace & tack strips out. The interior is totally stripped except for a couple wires and the window regulators.

 

I think a tilt front end would be a lot easier if it slid forward 3"-4" before it tilted. Then you could make the rear edges pretty solid, and the could be slid into a lock position when slid back to fully close.

I lifted the nose off my car several times by myself and can tell you without a doubt, the bottom of those fenders pivot a long ways past the front door edge, but if I pulled forward, they cleared everything much better. Least that was my experience. Gene

 

Gene, that's exactly what I'm thinking now. I was thinking of an articulated subframe to just manipulate the fender tips away from the body, but I don't want to add the weight if I don't have to. In my imagination, the key here is just how low and how far forward can the pivot be. that tells me how much interference the fenders create as they swing up.

Rather than a slide mechanism I'm considering a sort of spring loaded "snail-cam" link that pulls the fenders forward, and then lifts the nose slightly off the bumpers. When I pop the latches, the nose will move by itself. I don't know if I'll use hydraulic struts to lift the nose though. I was also considering a spring tensioned cable system. I don't want to stand by one fender and have the nose flex as I pick it up at one corner (part of the articulated subframe idea was to stiffen the nose against that torsion from a manual one-man lifting.

<EDIT...>
My big quandry isn't how to move or lift the nose, but how I'll secure the radiator. I'm ditching the original radiator in favor of an aluminum one & I think It'll have a rubber-mounted shroud, the shroud being also the mount to the frame. It'll have to be small to fit through the original radiator mount or whatever I have to replace it with. That original radiator mount is a big part of the stiffness in the front clip & will remain so even after I seam the hood down solid. I still expect to at least add a bead near the cowl edge on the hood, to stiffen it.

 

I haven't made a lot of progress this week, what with Mother's Day and the rigors of ordinary life. Also I've spent some time getting my garage organized to accommodate all the parts of Edith it now houses or soon will.

I did get the suspension off and spent some time cleaning up the dirt/rust/paint/scale/barnacles clinging to Edith's body & frame.

 

This avatar thing is strange...

 

If you pull the nose forward as or before you tilt, you can mount the radiator with rubber bushings onto a couple of pieces of angle iron attached to the frame. Then you can add brackets to the frame to catch and hold the original rad support your using to support the front edge of the fenders separately from the radiator.
I also believe your going to need a bead along the back edge of the nose to keep it in form. I'm not sure you will be able to make it as stiff as you desire, those hoods are pretty light duty to support the fenders. What are you going to do with the inner fenders, leave them out? Gene

 

Ulu, I posted in your original thread and just found this one and read thru it. Congratulations on getting out of the rut you were stuck in, getting in shape and taking your life back. The progress on Edith is great, you're on a roll. The dakota clip and v8 & 5spd swap mentioned early on sounds like a winner. Take a look at devilbiss finishline paint guns, they sell a multi gun kit for prime, topcoat. Southern polyurethanes, SPI, makes a very good and reasonably price primer, I haven't had a chance to shoot it, but it has great reviews on the HAMB. Keep the updates coming.

 

Hey, thanks guys. I really appreciate the advice. I've been busy fixing up my garage this week, so not much got done on the car. I didn't have enough places to put all the parts and pieces, so the garage is getting new shelves and some major reorganization.

I'm planning on fenderwell headers, so the inners will remain, but the lower inners will probably get bobbed a bit. Without the inners, or some structure to replace them, the whole nose will fold up like an empty sleeve.

 

The hood would just twist & fold up without the stretcher, even by itself. No way would it stabilize the fenders, In fact it will itself require major stabilization.

There will be not just a bead, but a series of short standoffs to an inverted U frame of some light gage EMT, that will perform some stiffening and stabilization, plus purchase for the main latch and a mount for the little rollers I'm going to use on the lower fender corners to lock them tight to the cowl. The hood should be just along for the ride.

I'm looking to have one main latch to the cowl & some front links that toggle the front down tight when it's drawn back by the main latch, and a little roller on each rear fender tip that guides it into position and secures it with a little "track" on the lower cowl.

All this is subject to change once I light the torch off. ;D

 

BTW folks, I started a new topic for the tilt-nose.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/p15-with-a-tilt-nose.923081

 

I bumped this as I'm losing track of things & this helps. I'm still working on the garage and shopping for welding equipment, so not much attention has been paid to Edith.

This car seems to have a very generous cowl section. Perhaps it's a non-issue, but I am having second thoughts about doing the tilt nose because of a potential increase for cowl shake.

 

I doubt many here would give you much grief about not making the nose tilt (OK, yes they would, but you can ignore them), given how complex it looks to have become. Gene

 

Well I have made a major stride in the project, in that I actually bought some welding equipment. I'd been shopping for new stuff, but a buddy called me about a local auction house & I scored a nice Victor Super Range torch for $88 +tax.

Cart, handle, cutting torch, regulators, rosebud, 2 welding tips, hoses, tanks, gas (!), oxygen (!!), striker, plus welding, brazing, & soldering supplies included.

I'm happy as a clam! Here's some ****py cell phone pics taken at night:



I was all primed to drop $900 on a new Victor Journeyman setup, but this was a deal too good to p*** up.

I lit the torch off 30 mins after I got it home & the tips are clean! The valves are good, & the regulators hold, but the hose is rotten & everything is rather dirty from sitting in a barn somewhere 10 or 20 years untouched. And the tanks haven't been tested since 1990. But after a little cleanup it looked & worked just like the set I had in the 80's.

Fortunately, the tanks I "won" are the 80 oxy & a 2A, which was exactly what I wanted. The cart was evidently welded together by some farmer, to hold full size tanks, so I'll get the proper cart & turn this one into a yard ornament for the wife.

But the cart is kinda cool. He made the wheels from scratch & it's obvious.. The hand grips are bits of old sandblasting hose or steam hose or something very thick. It's made from leftovers, I'm sure.

Now if I wasn't so gung-ho about tig welding the body work, I could start the floor patching soon. But there's this beautiful little portable Tweco TIG at the local welding store that I might be able to afford now that I saved several hundred on a torch.

Unfortunately my wife thinks I saved enough to take her on a vacation.
Phooo!

Tomorrow I score some goggles, gloves, a hose, a new cart, & we burn some steel.

 

If only TIG deals like that came up, right? Looks good, but be sure to get those new hoses. I still remember a fun little acetylene leak/fire from my youth. As a fire it was nothing much, and shutting off the tank valve stopped it, but the "what if" thoughts afterwards were sobering indeed.

 

One should be humble & not brag about saving in the wrong company!

 

TIGs and MIGS & buzzboxes all show up at the auction, and next week they're auctioning off the tools of a local fab company. The add shows several good old industrial Millers & lots of clamps, tools, tables, drills, mills, a brake, a 100 lb anvil (!) etc. But I really want a tiny modern AC/DC TIG with advanced circuitry.

I do want to bid on that anvil though.

The hoses are old and the acetylene hose is bleached & porous in one spot where it was exposed to the sun; and you can smell the gas seeping through it like a sponge. I could remove that (20') set, as it's got a double set with couplers, but the "good" set is only 10' long, and it's still way too old for me. These hoses must be 30 years old.

She was there when I bought it, so no hiding that fact. OTOH, I just took her to the coast 4 days last week, so she's not totally vacation deprived either. I just have to talk some sense into her.

Fresno Oxy opens in 30 mins, so time to clean up & go shopping before work.

 

Well no shopping this AM, but I did get more photos, in the daylight.

 

Very cool cart! and a rose bud, good score.

 

The torch I bought is a smaller Victor J-series with the baby regulators, and not the Super Range, but it's perfect for sheetmetal.

I put 4 little beads on the base of my tool cabinet to reinforce it Friday night, and the setup welded quite well.
I, OTOH, didn't weld so well. I made two nice fillets and two ugly blobs. I just don't see well enough & so I bought a magnifier lens for my new goggles. I haven't tried that yet.

I also went to an auction today to buy this big vise, but I missed out.


To console myself I bought some very nice Victor Super Range welding tips, regulators, a new hose plus some gas fittings, all for $25 but the oxy regulator was banged & needs 2 new gauges. The valves turned smooth as silk though. You can see the Super Range regulators are much larger than the baby Victor regulators I got with the cart.

I also bought a $160 HD Milwaukee angle head sander in beautiful shape with cup stone, cup brush, grinding wheels, sanding discs etc. for $75 which is the price of the discs, cup stone and cup brush alone. I bought a router & bits, drill bits, EZ-out set, & several other tools for a song.

It was the estate of a deceased contractor, and hotrodder, evidently, as there was a V8 Chevy-II, & a couple club plaques, including the "T-Timers". I couldn't afford the plaques (or the Chevy or his boat) but I'll enjoy owning some of his tools.

 

No actual progress on Edith lately, but I have been practicing my welding on this old cart, before I take a torch to my car. I've only picked up a torch a couple times in the 30 years since I sold mine, so I really do need the practice.

I think the cart improved a lot once I cut this mess off of it.




The box is funky as hell, but it's pretty solid, so I reinforced it with some small tubing.



The box is now bound on all edges, but it's just 18 Ga. galvanized sheet and I only removed the minimum of zinc, where I actually intended to weld.



It all went pretty well, until I blew the oxy regulator. I swapped the other one on, but I knew it was old as hell, and it blew as well. I'll end up sending all 4 to Victor to be rebuilt.
I got a good workout with the big grinder. That Milwaukee is a monster, and I stripped the base plate & as much else as possible with it.



I'll have to pick up another regulator tomorrow, & continue with my mods. I'm adding some stops to locate the tanks more securely, plus a rack for the hoses. I hate having them on the handlebars because I always have to walk around the cart. This one is too big to lean over all the time.



Stripping the wheels with Zip-Strip & co**** Scotchbrite:

 

My previous post makes a lot more sense with the correct photos shown at the top.



Also I decided to have all the Victor regulators re-built in time, but for now I bought a new set of cheaper Weldmark regulators to get me by.

They are more or less copies of a Victor SR250 & SR260 set. I might have actually bought Victors, but I don't like the new ones as well as the old ones I own, & Victor will rebuild them for a fraction of the new cost.

 

Well my gas is well regulated now, & I got some more welding done on the cart last night. It's sure a lot easier to weld if your oxy pressure isn't creeping all the time.

Anyhow the cart is cleaned up & mostly done. I have to build a hose hanger for the cart & then I can paint it.

Somehow this turned into a lot of welding practice, but based on a couple ugly welds made last night, I still need more. I'm planning a couple more minor welding projects before I tackle the floorboards.

 

Practice welding is always a good thing, but even after all that practice, don't be real surprised if the floor pan welds still are not pretty. Getting floor pans clean enough (on both sides) for pretty welds is the challenge. Gene

 

Yes and mine aren't too pretty on the bottom side either.

I did some more work on the cart & she'll be ready to paint tonight, but it rained today & might be too humid.

I used the Victor rosebud and the cutting torch for the first time last night to bend & cut water pipe, and they're both in top shape. The Weldmark regulators work but they actually kinda ****. They're pretty nice looking regulators, but the oxy regulation is not smooth.

I'll be rebuilding the Victors at the first opportunity.

 

Well the regulators have improved with use & the pulsation in the oxy regulator has abated. I was able to do some successful welding on the torch cart, plus strip it & paint it. This thing was made originally from used steam pipe, spliced together in places, and it's not 100% straight, but it's hand built so I guess that makes it cool.

The plates & rods were new, but the angle iron & chain was not. It was all hot rolled and had been painted right over the picking and mill scale. The original photos do not convey how much dirt, scale, rust, & burnt oil was under that white paint. It took a long time to get clean enough to paint & believe me I didn't bother with filler. I primed it with Jasco & shot it with Rustoleum satin Hunt Club Green from spray cans, to match my tool cabinet. The wheels are shot with a dark hammertone grey.

I used some much better chain & I added supports to keep the tanks located well. The 5th pipe I added really improves the cart. I built a hose rack on the front of the cart & I think it's a big improvement. It's easily removable for tank changing.




I ended up getting a lot of welding practice just fixing up that old cart. I was going to save myself a lot of labor and just buy a new cart, but this one was so old & big and stable that I hated to spend $100 for something newer that's not nearly as stout.

I added some bits of 1/2" tubing to reinforce the tin box & support the pipe for the hose rack. The dang box was galvanized and painted and rusty in a million spots as well. I should have torched it off, but the original maker had spent some effort to build and attach it, so I decided to just torch the snot out of it, s****e it off, brush & paint it. It looks like hell, but I had to draw the line on doing body work to a wrinkled tin box. It's just a cart--which is easy to say after I spent dozens of hours de-rusting and welding & painting.

Anyhow it's beautiful now & just needs a rod holder & some new handle grips to be finished.

 

After all the hours spent sanding ant stripping that cart I didn't flinch at paying $18 for some genuine Harley rubber grips. That was the only place in town with plain 1" black rubber grips.

I've got a lot of rusty parts so I'm using electrolytic de-rusting with my 10 AMP Schumacher battery charger.

I set up just a 3 gal bucket to start with & the results were so encouraging that I'm already on version 2. I got a better bucket and attached heavy wire "buss bars" to it so I can hang cathodes and anodes at random positions. Then I put the whole mess into a big plastic bin, to contain any mess (It's messy, no question.) That bin in turn will eventually be ver. 3, the tank growing as I de-rust larger and larger parts.

I need a little blast cabinet too, and some kind of temporary paint booth setup, so I can get parts primed with epoxy. I'm nervous around 2-part paint, because expensive mistakes are too easy to make. I've shot 2-part urethane, but only one-part epoxies. I'm really questioning whether I want to spring for a primer that will out last me by a century.

 

I have to keep bumping this, even though I'm making zero progress on the car, or else I'll lose it in the shuffle and madness that is the HAMB.

I did build myself a nice little welding table from a steel gate and an old bed frame, and some brand new steel casters from Lowes. You can see the beginnings of it in the pics above where I'm welding on the cart.

Also I made a little cart so I can move the front suspension around & out of the way, plus I welded up a big rack to hold all the seats, carpet, & upholstery panels until I get around to them.

I've been de-rusting various old parts I'll need later. I put in some somewhat rusty craftsman wrenches this AM. we'll see if there's any chrome left on them when I get home tonight. LOL

I'm still trying to decide whether I'll keep it as a coupe or slice the top off, ditch the windows, and build a roadster out of it. I already have 3 other cars with lids, so I feel it should be a roadster.

 

Very interesting, Ulu. I'm subscribing so I can follow along as well. I just picked up a stock '48 2 door sedan to match my coupe, that I'd like to make a daily driver out of for the wife, and my initial thoughts run really close to yours for your car as well. To bad your so far north of me, I'd like to see some of this in person as well!

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