Technical c4 starter

going plumb crazy....have done probably 10 302/c4 set ups. this one has me stumped to say the least. 1989 302 hooked to a 1970 c4........using big bell and big flex plate....I know there are small and large bells and different flex plates for both. they all that the same starter or so I've always found and confirmed with my ford buddies and local parts store. checked part numbers for flex plate and you can look at the flex plate installed and see that is correct. PROBLEM....I have tried 3 different starters (two different styles--stock,high torque) none of the starter will engage the flex plate.....tested the starters before install and they all work as they should....installed in the set up the starters spin great but will not engage the flex plate to spin/start the engine. bolt holes are correct so it's not just a matter of maybe drilling a new bolt hole......it seems I need a starter with more starter gear off set(towards the flex plate) any ideas ??????????????????? thanks

 

I think you need a starter for the 70 c 4 trans, I tried to put a 1979 starter with a 79 300 six, to a 1995 5speed trans. the starter came with the 79 motor and would fit the 95 trans, it would turn flywheel a few inches and jam up. I put on a starter for the 95 trans and it works fine.

 

The more I learn, the more I've learned to hate Ford starter setups.
There is a possibility that the flexplate ring gear wasn't properly set. I've seen YouTube videos showing such manufacturing errors. My advice is to start measuring everything.

Meanwhile (sorry for thread-jacking) I have a D20A-6394-AA (1972+ manual trans SBF) bell housing that I had to install an automatic transmission starter with a homemade shim--- because the ring gear sits somewhere between an automatic and a manual trans which is either the fault of the bell or the flywheel. It still grinds a little, but it at least starts the engine.

 

Ford also used 2 different flywheels for the small block motor ,the changeover is 85 I believe, different tooth count on the flywheel. you may need to match starter pinion to the flywheel, in addition to pinion offset. Count teeth on flywheel and parts guy should be able to tell you tooth count needed for starter pinion to match flywheel

 

One flywheel tooth count will be 157 teeth, the other should be 164 teeth I think. When I put the 95 trans up to my 79 motor, the 79 starter would bind up on flywheel because it was to close to the flywheel, with the right offset on 95 starter all is ok. If your starter does not engage the flywheel try a older starter and it should work ok because older starter will be closer to the flywheel. Hope this helps.

 

Yes, actually there are three. There was an early SBF 160 tooth that was superseded by the 157. Don't ask me how I know.

 

I forgot that of the 2 different tooth flywheels, one had a 24 ounce balance weight and the other a 50 ounce weight, nothing like keeping it simple right?

 

I think you problem is depth...anyhow here's some old info:
This is copied out of a Speedway PDF:

When measured, the distance from the rear face of the engine block to the aft edge of the starter ring
is approximately .800 in. The starter ring is .375 thick, thus the forward edge of the starter ring is
approximately .430 aft of the rear face of the engine block. All of the frequently used auto trans
flexplates, whether 157 tooth or 164 tooth, follow this nominal dimension +or- .035.
For the manual transmission starters the dimension from the back of the engine block to the aft edge
of the ring gear on the flywheel is .420 in, the starter ring is still .375, which leaves the forward edge
of the ring gear only .050 aft of the engine block. HOWEVER, this only applies to the old large
diameter (14
1⁄8” dia) 164 tooth flywheels! On the small diameter (13¼” dia)157 tooth flywheels the
backspacing is the same as with auto trans flexplates. So, a starter for manual transmissions will not
work with the 157 tooth manual transmission flywheel, even though it could be bolted to the engine.
The majority of the late model applications using the T-5 five speed transmission used the small 157
tooth flywheel, hence we see starters designated for a “5 speed manual trans”, it is not actually the
transmission, but the diameter of the flywheel (and subsequent ring gear backspacing) that dictates
the AUTO starter be used. It has nothing to do with a 3,4,5 or 10 speed trans, it is all about the

flywheel that they are using.

 

Starter Insanity! So, if this Speedway document is correct, then NAPA and Rockauto (not to mention others) have it all wrong!

 

thanks for all the help and the good info.......the problem was me when I installed the trans. I tried a different method than the one I've used for 40 years. everything felt right and it went together ok but what happen is the trans didn't go on the converter correctly and I got the converter bound up in the front pump in the trans......gotta come apart...and I probably ruined the new pump and maybe the converter.......LESSON LEARNED: STICK TO WHAT YOU KNOW WORKS !!!!!!!!!