Projects The bucket of ugly! A de-uglifying thread...

I did too, but it was a compromise, compared to my plan. It was nice and got my feet wet, as new builds should, but I had a VERY limited budget and tall dreams.

By the way, I'm still dreaming, but now I know what the hell I'm doing. BIG things on the horizon. My journey with pre 1948 cars is NOT over.

 

Yes, pretty much, I was thinking more to your comments about windhields and steering column angle. When I see a hard-chopped, heavily raked windshield, it makes me think "track T" more than "T-bucket", stance, ride hieght, and front/rear tire size differential play into it a lot too. Marty is going "hard" for track T, the wide five rims and floating axles on the back are pure circle track stuff, and make a VERY strong "oval track" statement. Very cool stuff

 

I learned a lot about the way you name a model.
I learned alot about era specific parts from this threat!! And I learned alot more from this threat.

I was just talking about the interior of martys car!!

But when it comes to interior, the bucket vs. bench would'nt put it in one or the other?
It's the body that sets a track roadster apart from a bucket.
What really de rails a bucket build to me, is when you mix kobber, brass stainless and funky painted sheetmetal, and on top of the confusement they add stuff untill it's out of proportion. And then some more

The sixty bucket and track cars are more streamline in the use of materials, and have a Naked/minimalistic use of parts. Because lighter is fast and simpe is beautiful!

 

Did you end up snagging that "other" raw material you were talking about?

 

When you look at tweetie pie, from the side, the windscreen has a slight lean backwards. But when you look at a Fat T, from the side, the windshild is almost 90* on the body, add the rubber rake and the windshield look like it leaning forward.

This is for reference purpose only! No disrespect meant!!!

When you look at the car Dana build for his son, nice work but when you compare his steering wheel location of the one in chips or tweetie pie. To me, the one in chips car comes out the best looking.

But again, thats a look, and when you line your ducks up in a row, like Dana did. Wood steering wheel horisontal, wooden dash, keeg handle shifter and a keeg on the back, you get a nice ride! No doubt about it. B-)

 

Over the years I've see many rods with stock size 23 "T"bucket bodys an other too,an lots of them inside that are a mess,the builder just had no real idea as he built,just put stuff in as he could= dosen't fit drivers well an ends up a bitch to drive{don't matter if you cover that bad planning up by say it a hotrod,its still bad.
The hole inside when done right is a balance dance of pedals,steeringwheel spot,seat back n bottom plus the windshield. All that is in some ways controlled by floor hight and your own size. Most commen misstake I've seen is mounting the steering box with out understanding or having a close to needed mock up plan before working out that balance.
I'm 6ft an have no prob fitting into my son's 23T=stock size and chaneled 3in.=floor is up by 3.75 from bottom of body. This dose mean that seat bottom can't be high{I hate seeing buckets that the driver sticks up out of body too much,plus that mostly makes it near impositble to see through windshield vs over it{ over get old fast even with goggels n beanny] so seat bottom including padding is 6in at front edge an 3in at back stiff foam/back of seat is 3in thick. The angle of both are very very importen for comfort n fit. There is many many vaireble for all the above parts,but it is time well spent as much all the other work anywere on the car to get right for your size,if your size is small your job is a bit EZer,but there is no real need to be uncomfortibe.
Its late an I guess I'm just rambling,but I'll leve it posted anyway,maybe some usefull some were there,

 

Thanks for the kind words guys !!! My roadsters reflect the pre T- Bucket era, with a heavy emphasis on circle track racers. (1st pic) I have always liked the cars that Dick Kraft built, and was fortunate to meet him at Bakersfield. For those of us who built models when we were kids, these shots were taken at the Portland Roadster show back in 2001. I built this one for Lonnie Gilbertson, we started with a pile of parts and assembled it over the four days of the show, and drove it out the door. It was quite a hit with the show attendees.

 

Marty, in '71-'75 my brother and I looked over maybe seven or eight thousand cars attending East Coast and Nat events. Few track style cars in that era, scads of buckets. The interior detail of your builds is exceptional. Add to this the safety of the roll bar and body bracing. Appreciate your contributing these. I always liked Blackie's '26-7 T for the style he used.

 

Not yet, BUT, it's VERY promising.

 

Just..... WOW!

 

Cool pic's.....I like the 2" channel over the 4" tall frame. Good way to pick up an extra 2" of interior height! You build some very well thought out hot rods. Thanks for posting here.

 

No, I agree, and Gary alluded to this earlier, although he didnt spell it out. IMO, the verticle windshield works best on a car with near level ride hieght. Its in the way all this shit works together. I have posted a number of photos of the Dick Thompson T bucket on this thread, while I am not that crazy about some if the details, as far as stance/overall look goes, I think that car is as near to sixties T-bucket perfection as you will ever see. Combine the stance/windshield ect from that car with the cleanliness and lack of extraneous bullshit of the Penry car (Chips favorite, and my close second to the Thompson car) and split the difference in the wheelbase, and you would have the (IMO) PERFECT T-bucket. And after I visit Chip after LARS and get some more body parts, thats exactly what I plan to do.

If it seems like Chip, Gary and I (and Marty) obsess on the minutiae, its because thats where the "keys" are hidden. Thats the stuff that really makes the difference between "yea thats cool" and "HOLY SH*T, LOOK at this!".

 

I still gotta dig up that R&C article and post it, I'll try to do that today. Maybe I'll add a few period pics of CRA track roadsters as well, so those that arent as familiar with this stuff as some of us ABSOLUTE NUTBAR FRIGGEN FANATICS (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) can see just how close Marty's stuff nails it.

 

I copied a couple of track T photos yesterday. Marty got it right on. Check out the vertical or almost vertical steering.

 

I think some of us that have been into this shit for all our lives Chip, George, me and others take it for granted that everybody else knows the timeline progression of what the T hot rod looked like. I've got a couple of pictures of what '25 and earlier T hot rods pretty much looked like through the '30s before WWII. These and speeders were just about it and few had V8s. It really wasn't until after the war that many got more power from V8s than they were pumping out of those A and B four bangers Speedsters were pretty much Model Ts with the bodies taken off and simple bucket (single and double) seats added.


After the war
After the war Ed Iskenderian bought this hot rod and installed a Ford V8 with his overhead valve heads. And below is what street and race T hot rods looked like until Norm Grabowski in the middle '50s and even his first version of his T looked pretty much like this. More on Norm in a later post.

 

Keep it coming! I love a great history lesson.

 

Von Franco's right on klone of Norms early version. Probably '55. Much like the Eskenderian T.
Ivo pretty much copied Norms early version but painted it red. About the time Ivo finished his his roadster about a year later Norm had modified his raised the back and painted it blue. Ivo told me he wanted to flame his but Norm beat him to it. Their was quite a rivalry between the two but I think it was good natured.
Okay that takes you up to the late '50s. Chips roadster is pretty indicative of the early '60s with fiberglass bodies mag. wheels and aftermarket suspensions.
Then the DeBinitcus roadster is mid '60s with taller top, brass horn and more.
Later '60s and on things got pretty ugly. But I'll let others tell you the rest.
Gary

 

A question on fiberglass beds. I've been paging through my early 60's magazines. How long were the first ones? They look short; 14" ? When did the longer ones appear?

 

Great stuff, but Gary missed the early fifties track roaster influenced street T roadsters like Dick Williams 1953 AMBR, and my favorite, Frank Rose's 1954 AMBR., This style was the shit in the early fifties, which is pretty clearly illustrated by three AMBR's in a row in the mid fifties, if you include Andereggs similar styled car tying for AMBR 1955. I'll fill in that blank.. Gary may have left these out because they are a continuation of the Isky/CRA theme, and kind of become a separate branch of the family tree, rather than a direct influence on what we think of as "T-buckets" I would agree with that, but they are pretty much the T-buckets closest cousins...

AMBR 1953, Dick Williams


AMBR 1954 Frank Rose, IMO one of the most killer cars of the entire era, and one of the most overlooked...


AMBR 1955, everyone knows the Anderegg car...

 

X2. About when did folks think a shortened bed was the way to? The main reason my bucket was never going to have that 14" bed, was because other than holding a gas tank, it was useless. Although Gary did manage to fit Miss Judy's shoes in his.

 

George glad you are continuing my info. I didn't have all those pictures and i am really focusing on 25 and earlier bodies. The '26 and '27 and the Anderegg Ts are good examples of the post WWII T hotrods pretty much before what we call T buckets. And really are not what I call buckets.

 

Wait a minute Fred How did you find out about me and miss Judy. Don't tell Chip or my wife. I hear he has guns and i'm sure she does. They are such small shoes anyway and high heels don't fit a red bucket.

 

And to answer your question I think Norm Grabowski was the first to fit a short P.U. bed to a T hot rod. The first I've seen. Probably about '53 when his car was still black and had a Ford flathead V8 in it. I don't think I've ever heard the whole story about all the build on his T but It would have been a good read. I think Von Franko spent a lot of time with Norm. It would be interesting to hear more. You have to remember Norm was an artist with a good artistic eye. His builds didn't just happen. I'm sure he put a lot of artistic thought into them.

 

OOPS! I was typing WAAAAY TOOOOO FASSSST!!!!! I meant to write, CHIP!!!!!

And there's our funny bit for a nice Friday.

 

I KNOW I've seen shortened beds on fenderless T's before Grabowski, I'll see if I can find some photos and put a date on them. Grabowski MAY be the first to go down into that 16"-18" range and the body moved back, and I do think he was the first to combine that with the bulldog front perch and spring behind the axle, and while all those elements were out there prior to Grabowski, its the combination of those 3 elements with a basic T roadster or roadster PU "bucket" that came to define what we think as T buckets.
I'll dig through some old photos, and see if I can find fenderless T's with 16"-18" beds prior to Grabowski, if I do, I'll post 'em. I dont really believe ANYONE builds "landmark" hot rods in a vacuum, its usually that they mix existing elements in a new way. While theres no way to know for sure who was looking at what, its still an interesting exercise to dig back and try to speculate on where the ideas may have come from.

 

Here is one from the early 60's that has a longer bed with a great roof line, not sure if this was before or after Grabowski 's car. I know it's a 26 or 27 T

 

Nice Friday??!! You sure as hell aint anywhere NEAR the PNW right now!!!

 

Don Kugler, "Kugies Kart" a '26/'27 cowl, but one of the all-time great T-buckets, without a doubt. I once said I a felt a late cowl almost took a car out of the "T-bucket" category, I didnt have this car in mind at the time, its one of the few that breaks that rule successfully. And yes, its after Grabowski and Ivo. I believe that car was probably finished around 1960???

 

That's a pretty good question.

I have seen early ads that offered a longer bed of about 24"-30" or so, to mimic the Ivo and Grabowski cars. I seems though by the early sixties that bed sizes in 'glass settled at two choices, either 20", like my car, or 14" as also commonly seen. I think that also coincides with about the time frame where I see bed molded into the bodies as well. These days I can't think of anybody that has the longer beds available that even look remotely like a shortened "T" bed.

 

As a kid I hardly ever missed an episode of "77 Sunset Strip", hoping to catch a glimpse of Kookie's "T". I started collecting parts, like an early body my older Brother gave me, and a with "well adorned" flathead I scrounged up. We went to a local wrecking yard and bought an "A" frame. I had visions of building a bucket, however we got hooked on the drags and I changed my plans. With a '50 Olds Rearend solid mounted on top of the frame, and a '53 Cad engine.this is what I built. Although I never got to race it, this was the car that launched my car building career 50 years ago !!!!!!