Technical ***Santa's Banger Sleigh: December 2014 Banger Meet***

This is what those tools do. If you see them buy them. Better than plastigage!

 

Neat tool Jim! Who made (makes) them?

 

Fed Mogul

 

Who has made or modified their own oil pump?

Fooling with the idea of major oil pump mods for my plymouth flat six.

 

Jim,
Those look very handy. I think they could be easily made.
Does the "V" rest on the crank or does the face of the "legs" rest on the block?
Do you use a depth mike from the face of the "legs' to the face of the pin?
Or is there some way to use an OD mike?

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I have done the usual mods to the A / B oil pump to increase volume for pressure oil feed conversion.

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Thats my guess! Thanks for confirming Jim! I've got a set with the tools from my father in law, he wasn't sure what they were as he got them from his dad, and with no box it was always a real mystery. I think they are around here somewhere but might have given/traded them away to good homes with other machinist stuff that I would never use.

 

Craz..... these do mains. The pin is sprung loaded. Knob locks the pin. Legs rest on the block face.
This is the sum total of these found by me over many years.
From my collection odd tools. If you like this I'll post more.
Hate to think of people just walking by them at a swap meet.

 

Yes sir, may we have more!!!!!!!

Jim,
You have so much knowledge with this stuff, that it would be a shme not to share it with us.

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To make a long story LONGER:

The engine, as I was told, was built in Idaho to run on the salt flats. It was built in the late 50's and set in a 1929 Ford A Coupe and was not started. Soon after, the owner passed. A second individual then purchased the project from his estate and the car sat in his garage, untouched, for over 50 years…the engine still not fired up. The 3rd owner, Larry V of ID was at a flea market selling A parts and was approached by the widow of the second owner and Larry bought the project from her. He took the engine to a machine shop (“Troys Engine and Mfg” in Rigby ID) who tore down the engine, did a fresh hone on the cylinders; checked all the tolerances, cleaned up the 50 year old assembly lube and prepped it to start. Larry then started it up and then posted it on the HAMB for sale. I bought the engine in January 2013 for a ‘27 roadster I had at the time but never installed it. The engine sat until October of 2014, when I turned my 1931 Ford project over to TJ O’Grady of Throttle Jockey Originals for assembly. TJ is a true artist. His craftsmanship and attitude far exceeded my expectations (which very rarely happens).

Here is what I have been able to determine (from Larry and Troys and others):

1932 Ford Model B engine, diamond block marked "51"
Wieland finned alum head, approximate compression ratio of about 7.5 to 8:1
head adapted to 36 ford water pump
enlarged bore 4.00” with new pistons
reground crank with insert bearings
balanced rotating assembly
enlarged 1.80 intake valves
ported intake and exhaust
heavy duty valve springs
adjustable lifters
modified full race cam
rebuilt B distributor with updated points
rebuilt B fuel pump
Gemsa finned alum valve cover
oil pressure to main and cam bearings
pressurized oil system - cold start-75# hot idle-25#
new clutch and pressure plate
slant top ford 1935 gearbox with adapter
Burns dual carb intake dual Stromberg 81's
custom fabricated dual exhaust manifold
Winfield vibration damper

I've atttached a pic of the car the engine came in.

 

Easy Fix!!!
http://www.locknstitch.com/


WACCUSTOMS.COM
Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!

 

This is directed to all of you "high performance" members.... Regarding rear main seals !
What are you currently using that works, or have used in the past, to keep the oil in the engine and the pressure up on the gauge ? I am looking for suggestions - solutions - even a witches brew, that will work on a B' engine with an NOS / C' crank shaft. I am ordering one of the new blocks from Tod Buttermore, and all his new blocks will be set up for full pressure to the mains and cam bearings. The majority of the engine builders I have talked with regarding pressure and rear main seals (oxymoron) are turning down the project because they can not guarantee that it will work and have no suggestions for me to follow up with. I have had people tell me about the 'Bertz' rear main seal, the Olds 350 two piece rear main seal, a Chevy 283 two piece rear main seal, and a few others that I can't quite figure out. What are you currently using - what has worked for you in the past - who would you recommend for this project, in either Babbitt or full insert bearings? My plans; a new Steve Serr 4 port cross flow head, Jim Brierley or Bill Stipe cam shaft, 2 side draft carbs, Reds header, T5 trans & light B' flywheel, Kiwi quick change w/torque tube, 16" kelsey Hayes wires, and a host of other money pit items that will only make it look better, not run stronger .... I am crossing my fingers that some of you will explain how you approached this issue and what you did or who you used to solve my long winded question on a national security secret! Thanks in advance, Steve

 

What block do you want to seal ? A stock B or one of the new A blocks. I believe Tod Buttermore is casting A blocks. I have used the Burtz seal but now currently using the SBC 2 piece seal. They both require modifications. I don't understand why the builders you have discussed this with can't guarantee their work. Do they normally work on A and B engines? I would suggest you start with the engine building information and tips presented each month at the start of the forum thread.

 

Steve,
That sounds like a very stout combination motor.
IMHO, using one of Tods blocks is one of the best choices, go "B" internals, bearings and Chev 2 pc seal.
I have used both Burtz seal and the 2pc Chev. Both work well if installed correctly and both can leak.
The two pc can be replaced with the crank in the block if necessary (installed in-correctly).

I re-assembled the dry sump pump on the racer and didn't pay attention to the pressure relief, when I fired it up it had 90+ psi. I warmed up the motor at that pressure and it didn't leak anywhere. I then adjusted the pressure back down to about 60 hot and no issues. Something to keep in mind is that when these motors were designed silicone sealant didn't exist. I no longer use gaskets except for head and carbs, everything is sealed with tubular gasket material.

John

John

 

My plans are for the new A' block with the B' internals.... That is what Tod is making and currently has no plans for the B' style valve cover or the B' fuel pump, and I can live with that. The rebuilders I have talked with all have a great following, solve issues that others have created with poor workmanship, receive much praise both here and on the Barn - but that being said, they only wish to work with the original slinger style rear mains. How does one install the 2 piece Chevy seal into the block, what work needs to be done, what modifications need to be performed to the crank, and which 2 piece seal do I use for the sample and start to examine it for my own satisfaction. Any recommendations as to a rebuilder that offers this type of "out the door" service?

 

Stan, thanks for the information, looks like a nice engine.

 

If you haven't talked to him already, try Joe from Turlock Machine. He offers a warranty with his engines and guarantees that they will not leak. My new engine runs really smooth and hasn't leaked yet (touch wood )
I went with a counterbalanced crank, insert bearings etc.

Turlock MachineJoe Sivils
1520 Michael Way
Turlock CA 95382
PH: 209-495-1689
EMAIL: chipmakerjoe@yahoo.com

 

Steve I am another using SBC 2 piece seal with no problems I use a V8 pump with external pressure adjustment which I set to 50 psi for the street and crank it up to 75 psi when at a race meeting
I did try the Bertz could never get it last or hold decent pressure

 

When we first built my engine we used a Burtz seal. I installed a modified V8 pump with internal relief. The pump had a stock spring and I had 80 lbs so I shut it down and cut the spring down until I had 40 lbs. The Burtz seal never leaked. When I sent the block back to Taylor's Jay installed a 2 piece SBC seal when we changed cranks. I took me a while to solve the leak at first but when I realized what the actual cause was/is it is no problem. I probably would have stayed with the Burtz seal. When using the 2 piece SBC seal in the A block I found the high performance tan colored seal is slightly thinner and easier to install.

 

Would any of you fellas happen to have an old Evans or Cragar A/B intake layin' around? Might need a backup for my Winfield...

Also interested in hearing your thoughts about head gaskets; silicone vs. copper...

 

If one is willing to step up and pay the price, what is the current price for a NEW Crower B' style drilled crankshaft that accepts the A' size connecting rods? there are no prices on their web site, so I am just asking. Has anyone done a strength comparison of the reproduction connecting rods with inserts VS a stock A & or B rod? Possibly the Crower crank that accepts their modern A' size rods are actually stronger than an original B' rod?

 

I have heard $2400 and $2600 in the past. I think that most of the currently produced forged A rods are reasonally strong. I'm using a set of "Skokie" (AER) rods in a stroker Winfield flathead in a 1500lb. "Lakes Modified". It has run 82 in the 1/4. my engine was turning 3750 with 3.90's I realize that everyone wants that high RPM engine but if you have good low end torque you can still get there. I did install regular 4 piece inserts in the rods.

 

My Crower billet crank for my Dodge Bros. 4 cylinder was about that price. It was a one off part so if anything it would be more expensive than a Ford part. It's really a nice piece and delivery was on time.

 

Ok, now that I have a reference point - assuming I have a good B' crank to start with, what is an "average" price to attach the counterweights and then have the crank drilled by someone that knows what they are doing? And or add in the cost of a complete grind and the mods necessary to install a 2 piece small block chevy rear seal onto this crank - block issues are extra, and I understand that.

 

I'm not current with the prices for the individual operations you are asking for to modify the B crank but I think you would be not too far off the price of a scat crank. I'm assuming you are going to use the services of an established shop. Guy down the alley working in his garage would be cheaper. I bought a an engine with a 4 port Riley on it that had been shade treed almost to scrap, guy was cheap though according to the owner of the engine when I bought it from him.

 

Banger Porn
this was at a local cruise do not have any more info but I do want talk with this guy

 

A really big vintage 4 banger



Have a look, quite interesting.

 

WOW

 

Very cool video!!!

 

Has anyone got their Oct 2014 Secrets of Speed magazine yet?
Thanks
Brian