I know you guys are getting tired of my questions....but here I go again. This car was in pretty bad shape. I have rebuilt about everything sheet metal. I'm now working back to front on the rough body work. When I get to the forward part of the lower quarters, I have a discrepancy on the area just in front of the wheel opening. One side is different measurement from the other. Likely they are both incorrect. Anyway, if any of you have a 55-56 that is relatively virgin in this area and you have the inner panel off would you measure these areas for me?! I'm one of those people that has to finish what I am on before I move on to another area of the car so I am stuck. One measurement is from the seam of the rear wheel house and directly to the sheet metal just under the inner brace and the other is from the inner rocker seam directly to the sheet metal. 2 door post. Pictures attached as my description is lacking. THANKS!
I'm going to be doing some minor dinging on an original paint Club Sedan, hopefully within the next week. If nobody has posted measurements by then I'll get 'em.
Thanks! That would be great! No, so far no one seems to have their car apart in that area. That measurement on the top of the wheel well seam outward and along the inner rocker to the skin are the deal. Once I get that I can bring both quarters to where they should be and move on. From the wheel opening back is OK.
Just thinking. There is a guy less that 10 miles from me that has a 56 in good shape...rotting in a building. I tried to get measurements from that car and the guy was not interested. Go figure.
I haven't forgotten you. Due to unforeseen cir***stances the job had to be postponed until the middle of the month. If you still do not have measurements by then it will be the first thing I do. My apologies.
I appreciate your effort. Sorry to be a bother but I can't find another car around here to work from. I have other things to do on the car so I'll back off the bodywork behind the doors for now. Still need to get the motor finished off as soon as I can get a part or two. I have the body under control until I get to that area behind the doors to the wheel wells. Since the car was in bad shape and had been worked on so much, I just don't have anything to go by. I'm also getting a curve inward down low at the rockers behind the doors. If you can, please check yours and let me know if the rockers are straight back from the front fender to the front of the rear wheel opening or if the body curves inward at the bottom. In other words if a straight edge was placed on the front rockers, would there be a gap when it reached the area behind the door. I'm following the inner rockers with the EMS panels and get that inward turn behind the outer rockers just behind the doors.. I don't know if that was how it was originally.
If I understand your question correctly the inner and outer rockers if not straight have very little curvature from front to back. I've got a complete floor pan from outer rocker to rocker and can get a straight edge on it this weekend.
Thanks, that would be a big help. If you can catch a land mark like the body mount holes out to the inner or outer rocker or the pinch where the inner and outer come together under the car, that would be the ticket. I got to check out a 4 door yesterday. First it was a four door and second it had had body mods so I really didn't get what I needed. Kind of poopy that there is another car that even has it's factory paint just a few minutes away that I can't measure!
go to our facebook page https://www.facebook.com/EMSAutomotive it has a section : how to install body panels, it think it will clear up a lot of issues thanks for buying from us the ems guy
Went out to the floor pan and got some measurements. Turns out there was right side rocker damage (I did not pay close attention when I got it since I bought it for the floor alone) that was repaired years ago with a replacement rocker so I would not trust rocker to rocker dimensions in the damaged area which started about mid door forward. Anyway, the floor section starts at the front end about 3"into the firewall kickup and back to just behind the cross brace under the back seat cushion. Attached is a picture of the good rocker side which still has original paint, notice without a straight edge it appears the rocker is close to a straight: Measurements from the arrowed body mount hole center to outer edge of the pinch weld are as follows: Forward (at door front fender joint) 5-3/8" Center 7-1/4" Rear 3-1/4" I also measured outer pinch weld surface to outer pinch weld surface from side to side at the rear mount (undamaged section) and got 62". Finally went to my 55 Ranch Wagon (undamaged and original paint) and measured outer pinch weld to frame dimensions: Outer pinch weld surface to rear spring mount outer surface 8-1/8" Outer pinch weld surface to frame 8-1/4" I did not measure at the front of the door since the frame angles inward in that area.
Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It looks like I have to break some welds and do it again. I just can't figure how it got off. I went right back where the original inner rockers welded to the floor supports, then outer rockers to the inners. I can move them out though, now that I have this information. If you get to the other car, I could still use the measurements from the wheel well pinch out in a couple of places to ensure I have the proper curve. Sorry for asking for so much. You have already been a lifesaver!! Might have to buy another EMS panel for one corner. Its already more EMS than ford!! lol
Good article. That is pretty much how it's being done. The body is still on the frame until the rough body work is done. BTW; What is the coating on your quarter repair panels? That is some tough stuff!!!
OK I went out and checked the measurements. Both sides seem to be close. The middle measurement is 1/4 out on the p***enger side. The rest are almost spot on. So, taking the p***enger side first, here is what I have. The rocker seems to be twisted in starting just ahead of the B post. This to follow the lower quarter. Both are the original floor supports to inner rockers. But hey, I can cut the middle support out and re-weld it where I need it to be to make things right! I'm thinking that this area is out causing the rocker to bulge a little and translating to the gap between the straight edge you see here. Is the B post in the correct place? It was supported when everything was replaced but I guess it could have moved. Anyone have any idea how to check the position of the bottom of the B post? Cross measurement from the OS strap mount maybe? Again, I have nothing to use as a standard. Where would I find the measurements that were used back in the day to repair crash damage?
Mitchell and other crash books will give you frame dimensions, although in your case frame dimensions would not help if just the body is tweaked. All Ford mentions is to take several cross dimensions at known points, for instance A pillar base across to B pillar base, and compare. Ford says that each pair of cross dimensions should be the same, they do not publish numbers that I have seen anyway. And if the dimensions do not agree Ford then suggests you bend things, taking into consideration spring back, until the measurements do agree. Real rocket science here. Looking at your rocker "bulge" you picture above: it is impossible to see exactly how you placed the straight edge so there is no real way to do a comparable on the stuff I have here. Suggest you do as Ford suggests, measure both rockers the same way and the bulge on both sides should be similar. Regarding your B pillar base to B pillar base measurement; I measured from outer door sill to outer door sill at the very back of the horizontal section at the base of the B pillar (actually measuring the very most forward portion of the quarter panel) and got 67-1/8", see picture: The exact measurement is just a little "fuzzy" because the tape bends slightly to go over the drive shaft hump, but both the Ranch Wagon and floor pan cut were the same. I then measured underneath the floor section at the center arrowed brace pictured above which is close to the front edge of the B pillar from outer pinch weld surface to outer pinch weld surface and got 61-15/16": So there you have it . . . I hope to get to the Club Sedan by early next week.
I'll check those tomorrow. Since my measurements are close to yours (with the one exception) you have me on the right track. One mistake ******s everything up! I think my problem could be the B post since the rear of the rocker seems to twist as it goes to the rear. (PIC) This is the area that I had the straight edge on previously. I had the straight edge tight to the rocker under the door hinges and you see the rocker taper back under the car. I'm not sure how much, if any, this should be. I'm thinking none? This could mean that the B post has moved out on me during the process.
To check that, maybe this would work when you (or someone else) get to the other car. These pictures show the only two ways that I can think of to check the top of the outer rocker (sill). One is from the outboard frame bolt (rear floor) to the edge of the sill ahead of the B post. The other is a cross from the top of one B post to the same edge of the sill on the opposite side and via versa. If yours is a hard top that won't work. If you ever vacation on the NC outer banks, it looks like I owe you a nice dinner!
After posting on the main board, I got some ideas on getting to the bottom of this. I found the absolute center of the car. This makes measuring easier. All that I need now is a total measurement between the B posts. If anyone would do that for me it would be a big help! I used the location of the lower wind lace attachment. (Photo) Also, I know that our cars are narrower at the rear than the front. Is yours a straight shot to front to rear? Mine seems to break just behind the door. The second photo shows what I have with a straight edge held on the door. I'm wondering if the B post is out a little causing this or is the car made that way?
Back on post #16 you talked about the rocker twisting as it approached the B pillar. Frankly I was having a hard time trying to figure what you were getting at, but posibly this...I may be all wet on this, but I believe the rockers are not suppose to be level on the top. This is part of the water drainage designed into the car. The water runs down the doors, out the drain holes and if the rockers are sloped downwards, to the outside. With that in mind, If you have tried to tack your rockers in place with the top level, there would be a twist as it got to either of the pillars, which have the bottoms at that mentioned angle/slope. This may have nothing to do with what your trying to figure out, just thought I'd throw it in there and I'm hoping to not confuse the issue.
Thanks, Any ideas are welcome. Things like this are hard to describe without you being able to put eyes on it. I certainly appreciate the help. I still haven't been able to check a good car. I did however get to measure a hardtop that was badly rusted but had good reference points. Rockers were rusted out but the pinch was there, front to back. I also got to measure the "B" post close to the floor. I don't have that information here (It's in the garage) but my posts are outward slightly. The p***enger more so. I am hoping that I can correct things on the p***enger side by; Cutting the welds on the top of the rocker, leaving the "B" post attached. That should give me movement. Cutting the welds on the rocker to quarter. Cutting the floor brace mentioned above as being too far out. (Even though it is original). Pulling the rocker and "B" post in about 1/4 inch to match the measurements of the good cars. Moving the rear part of the rocker and quarter out slightly. I plan to start cutting welds later this week. I was able to score two good doors yesterday. That may help too. The p***enger door will go on first. Maybe this will bring things back into alignment. Nothing like a do-over.
Many thanks to those that have helped! I am getting the thing to where it needs to be now. I have had to cut some of my work back out. Before welding her back up I going to make sure everything is as best as I can get it. I did find a guy that had a 56 hard top that was nice enough to let me measure. It was pretty bad shape but still had the pinch welds etc. for me to measure from. His was a hard top so I was not able to get the measurement from the top of the door opening to the top of the sill, front and rear of the opening. That should be it to get things flat and level. If anyone out there with a two door sedan has that and/or from the top of the opening to the rocker ledge where the fits, that would get me done. According to the measurements, the driver side should be better going. Again a big THANK YOU to those that took the time to help me with this!
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