Technical '32 ford steering issues...

Just got my '32 Ford back from being mostly built at a local shop with the steering stiff (along with other issues). It's so stiff that it is hard to steer even when rolling and will not begin to return after a corner is turned. You have to turn the wheel back. Shop owner says "it'll loosen up" or some such happy horse shit rather than suggesting that he address the problem. Had the car in at Chuck's Speed shop for engine work and they found that the tie rod was rubbing on the split wishbone on both sides. That may be part of the problem. Would it create a problem if I removed the wishbones and ground a notch in them to clear the tie rod? It looks like it would only require about a 1/2" notch. Is there a better solution? What other issues could be causing the stiffness? It seems too stiff just to be the rubbing. Thanks,

bob

 

Bend the steering arms... What steering box? Stock 32 ?

 

Heat and bend the steering arms, to lower the tie rod.

Also check the location of the thrust bearings around the king pin.
They look like this: http://www.macsautoparts.com/early_...ndle-bolt-king-pin-2-od-ford-1-ton-truck.html
IIRC, should be under the axle, so it supports the weight.
Seen them installed on top, defeats the purpose.

 

Other possible causes:

There should be an adjusting screw on the steering box.
Some Gorilla might have over tightened it.
Disconnect the drag link and see how easy it is to turn the wheel.

King Pin bushings might have been installed incorrectly.
Or not reamed correctly. Disconnect the tie rod, and see how easy each wheel steers.

You have some work ahead of you.

 

If you really want to be thorough, disconnect
the steering column from the box, and make sure
the column turns freely.
Then chase the problem all the way through.

 

All of this really depends on what steering gear and associated front end parts are being used:
If you are using a 32 steering box, they were either 13:1 ratio or 15:1. 15:1 is much easier to steer.
Re the king pin bearings: A 32 would have the bearings on top, After 34 they were lower.
All the info by Unkl Ian is absolutely spot on. Get to work.

 

The guys are trying to help, but all you've said is "my 32 Ford."

In the hot rod world that could mean anything. To get intelligent answers, you need to tell us EXACTLY all the specs. Naturally, pics would help. As it is, everyone is flying blind.

 

Thats only with the original spindles...which are unlikely to be in use...but with no pics, who knows!?!?

 

U. Ian's suggestion is step one...does box bind or is problem elsewhere. If there is any stiffness at all in box itself go through the adjustment sequence in the bulletins step by step, easy stuff to get everything meshing right. Since you didn't say otherwise I assume we are looking at a real '32 Ford box.
Up front, jack up axle, move everything manually piece by piece...
Bringing the rubbed part of the tie rod down smartly on the builder's head will put in some extra clearance...

 

Since the Tie Rod was rubbing, and the "builder" thought that
was OK, assume everything they touched is completely WRONG.

And anything they looked at is suspect too.

 

This is what I think too. How can anybody think it's OK to have a steering component continually rubbing, and expect it to get better on it's own? Maybe he thought it would wear a hole in the rod or wishbone to "clearance" itself?

 

I'm hoping the photos Ive tried to include show up. If not, I'll try again. Someone said they thought the steering box was an early Hudson? Perhaps the pics will help.

bob

 

This '32?
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/seattle-apple-orchard-survivor-32-5w.826380/

 

Well, the pics shown a quarter of the page down here: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/seattle-apple-orchard-survivor-32-5w.826380/page-3 don't show any tie rods rubbing anywhere. And I think ElPolacko is a straight shooter, so I would give him a chance to explain what is going wrong.

When you talked with him about this, what was the explanation of the tightness?

 

Here are the pictures from realdeal32's zip file, easier to see.

 

So...what the hell is going on? On picture shows tie rod above radius rod, the other (the one linked in post by Alchemy, above) has it below. There is more going on here than we have been told, perhaps? Spindles seem to have changed, too...

 

Bruce
Some of the later pictures in Industrial Chassis' build album show the tie rod relocated to below the wishbone.

 

Thanks to Rich B for simplifing my pics. I'm severely low-tech. The earlier pic posted by Alchemy was apparently early in the build. The pics I posted are the way it was when I picked the car up a couple of weeks ago and the way it is now. As far as an explanation, I don't recall if there was one beyond something along the lines of it should loosen up. As I said before, the severity of the tightness makes me believe there is more going on besides just the rubbing tie rod. Unlike most of you guys I don't have a well equipped shop to do metal fabrication and so if that is required I'll need to find a shop to fix it. I'm hoping for an easier fix... Thanks for your help!

bob

 

Everything looks right. And even though steering components shouldn't rub sometimes they do gently graze. (My tie rod does, but very gently). I'm wondering if the box started to lock up after some heat got to it or something. El Polacko knows his shit enough to not blatantly mess it up. Also, and this is not intended as a dig, are you sure it's heavy and not just normal for a hot rod? Sometimes with the arms bent all short it takes a little effort, I know some guys who have complained about stuff that seems normal to me. Once again, not a dig, a legitimate question My car has a little heaviness to it..

 

By the way those bones could be notched for sure. But I would look for a deeper tie rod end first..

 

Legitimate question indeed. After all, the last time I drove it was '68. It's not so much that it steers hard as much as it doesn't return - you have to steer it back after turning. I tried isolating stuff as suggested. Disconnnected the pitman arm and the wheels could be turned from side to side by hand but dragged a little. Not enough to be the problem by itself. Pulled the steering wheel and found that as it loosened, the steering turned more freely but... still not right. Seems that the wheel rubs on the top of the column as if there should have been a large washer or ring. Sanded it back to give more clearance. At that point there seemed to be some drag in the steering box in a couple of spots. I think I've located the adjustment screw on the back but not very accessable. May have to jack the car up to get to it. The only thing I changed was the contact of the steering wheel on the column but after a test drive it was steering better - the wheel would come back some. So... it sounds like there are a few small issues causing the bad steering. Next I'll try to access the back of the steering box - hoping to not have to remove it. Thanks again for the help!

bob

 

Steering boxes are designed to be slightly tighter in the middle,
since that is where the most wear will occur. But they should still
move without much resistance.

Do some research on that box first.
Make sure what that "adjusting screw" on back is for.

 

I've got to study this thread. Thanks guys for the info...

Have a similar problem with our 32. I skimped and used a "no name" Vega style box on it. I know , shame, shame...... Never steered like I thought it should. Play in the wheel and the car wanders more than bias plies should I'm guessing.

Now the box is tight at both ends and won't return. Everything else seems to check out so I'm guessing the POS mystery box is just worn out? I hope that's what it is.

Picked up a new quality box that I understand is a So Cal unit. Friend picked it up at the Pamona swap. If it ever warms up around here I plan to swap it out.

 

I would definately bring it to El P's attention.
It's the right thing to do...and I'm sure its what he would want you to do!
This would be childs play for him to figure out. I have no idea why he didn't check it out before it left the shop but I'd guess most likely it wasn't part of the original work order so getting it fixed up might cost some additional $$$.
The ABILITY isn't in question though.

 

Is it possible the car has been jacked up catching tie rod,thus bowing tie rod and making it hit wishbones upon turning?

Not sure what internals are in the steering box but stock32-36 ford boxes don't really return to center easily like a modern car , I have a ton of caster in mine and it makes it easier but still doesn't do it on its own... That's why guys like the f1/f-100 boxes

 

I didn't call anyone out. This forum did. I'm not trying to hurt anyone. I didn't mention anyone. Didn't intend to. As far as driving it back to the shop, I'd be concerned about driving forty miles up I-10 with the steering as it is( I had it flatbedded here). I'm just trying to get a car drivable which is what I've been about for two years. I have voiced my disappointment with the steering with no response. First when I picked the car up from the shop. Next when I stopped by to pick up the misc. parts. No response. They have driven the car. How could they not be aware of the issues? I don't wish anyone any ill will. May they prosper... I came to this "public forum" just looking for help to get a car drivable - nothing more.

bob

 

Way too many unanswered questions here. I would start with the Nash La Fayette steering box, has it been rebuilt, or is it still running on 50 year old grease?, where are the tie rods now, do they hit on the drag link when suspension travels? Etc etc.....

 

I would dissconnect the drag link and see how the box feels. I would send the box to NeilinCa if it is not right.

 

I did a complete overhaul/restore/rebuild on a Jeep CJ7 a couple of years ago. While swapping in a new steering wheel the washer that slides onto the shaft wasn't thick enough for the aftermarket parts being used resulting in the wheel's post cover rubbing on the column. The very minor rubbing created an extremely heavy steering feel until corrected. I believe you have a few issues going on here adding up to a very stiff wheel. I believe this may be one as you previously described. And I don't believe it will eventually "loosen up" to feel better on its own.

 

On the box itself, I believe it is a Gemmer type using the same basic adjustments as '37-48 Ford. Those have a couple areas of adjustment to get everything right, and if box is doubtful it is worth doing what it takes to get to the adjustments and complete the procedure. If it has been disassembled and put together again without full adjustment this is mandatory. Info here: http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_steerngear_adjstmt1937-48.htm
Since steering wheel needed attention, it will need checking again after shim adjustment on the box, which might move it down into contact again.