I just got my 1952 Plymouth Cambridge. Or maybe a Cranbrook. Humilating as it sounds, I don't know which model I have. It has a 12 volt battery and coil in it right now. It wasn't run for except a few quick starts for three minutes to hear it run. The previous owner had them laying around and threw them on. I called summit because their coils for my car listed did not say the voltage. They said 12 volt when I called and gave them the part numbers to the ones listed for my car on their site. He then tried to sale me this one below. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/omx-1724701 It's for a Jeep, he said it shouldn't matter? I wanted to make sure before ordering?? He also told me to just swap it all out for a 12 volt system. I don't think its that easy. Of course I am not sure. Now I am reading it is a 6 volt positive ground? Never owned one of these! "Yikes", seems confusing. Here's a video of my motor running. Sounds fine, but I don't want to keep running it that way. http://vid1345.photobucket.com/albums/p667/panzer701/Engine/vid_20141108_133749_zps2s0hhl24.mp4 .
Its fairly easy to swap to 12 volt. Your car was a factory 6volt, but over the years someone could have switched it. You need to get a starter relay for a 12 volt system, buy a coil with a built in resistor. You need to put a voltage reducer on your fuel gauge or you'll burn it up. All of this stuff you can buy at Napa, speedway, or summit. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Also need a generator for 12 volt. Or switch to a alternator. Look on your generator and see if it says 12 or 6 volt. Like I said it could have been swapped earlier in its life. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
The positive post of your battery isn't hooked up. The other cable goes to ground. Or is it set up for positive ground? Even so, both battery terminals need to be hooked up. What's up with that?
****!! I didn't notice that! I knew it was disconnected when I got the car towed home, "no brakes". That video was sent to me before I bought the car, so I saved the video. I have no idea why it isn't connected. I have to go look and see what is connected to where. The prior owner that sold it to my friend who I bought it off of, told him he threw a 12 volt battery and coil on, because thats all he had on hand. I better take a look, actually right now. With my camera. Be back!
Okay, this is all wacked out. If it is supposed to be a positive ground? I am guessing? Here's a photo of the battery NOT connected, just liked the film clip while its running. It is connected to the solenoid. I am confused, or stupid.... The Negative side of the battery is connected to the top of the motor, like a ground? Here's a photo of the generator, appears to be original.... The 12 volt coil on there.... Strange aftermarket green wire going somewhere? Through the firewall... Also, Porky, I was trying to keep it 6 volt for now, just to get it on the road, with a battery and coil, hopefully. I would like to convert to 12 volt later though. I wanted to drive it a bit, and see if the ******, and everything else is okay. Just as reference, my friend I bought it off of, did not do this. The guy prior to him did this. He didn't have time for the car, and sold it to me, since I think he knew how badly I wants a 50's car.
Your car, 1952 Plymouth came stock with a 218 23.5 inch block, or it could have a Dodge 230 engine installed, same block different crank and rods. If you car/engine was converted to 12 volt, it may or may not have been. Things to look for, check for green "Autolite" tags on the starter and Genny. Red tags indicate 6 volt, which is positive ground. Have a look at your bulbs, see if they are 12v or 6 v, you can run it 6 v, if the charging system is in good shape, as well as the starter motor, us heavy battery cable 1, 1/0 or 2/0, nothing skinny, make sure your connections and grounds are tight and clean. If you decide to go 12 volt, get a 12 volt genny and starter from 1956 or later, or some type of modern alternator, your choice, you could use the starter on 12 volts, it will spin up good and fast, just don't over do it. reverse the wires on your ammeter for negative ground, us a could with either a built in resistor or with an external ballast resistor, or you will burn up the coil and points possibly. Voltage reducers for the gas gauge, temp gauge if electric, heater blower motor,wipers if electric they are probably vacuum. The radio, must never be run on 12 volts as is or even 6 volt negative ground, unless you swap in a new 6 volt negative ground ******** in the radio, then with a voltage reducer it may work, but take it out of the equation for now, if infact you have a stock radio in the car. Change all the light bulbs, and signal flasher. That's the basic gist of this conversion. But to be honest Old mopar 6 volt systems are not bad at all if in good running order....good luck
That looks normal positive to the solenoid switch and negative to ground, if it a 12 volt negative system, and if 6 volt positive ground the reverse negative battery post to solenoid and positive post to ground. You could start it on 12 volts, and pull the battery ground cable after she starts, to see how it runs. But do some checking now to see what has been done, with bulbs, voltage reducer etc. You may just have to get a 6 volt battery and go 6 volt for now...keep us posted, will try and walk you through this
Thank you Flat Six. I will look into it further tomorrow. I am bothered now. I hate when people start messing with wiring. I ***umed...I know, bad word.... That it is a 3.5, but I cannot verify that right now. I don't know where the numbers are on the engine, or where to translate them yet, this is all new to me. I will check for the tags on the starter and Gen tomorrow. Now I am really curious to whats going on. From what I do understand, this guy that had it before my buddy, just said he threw a battery and coil on it, to get it running. I am guessing the rest is stock. But why he has the battery cables reversed puzzles me. Unless he didn't know any better? Just caught your second post. I was hoping, battery and coil, and use it for a few months before doing other work on it. I will check the bulbs too. I truly appreciate the help. I am so used to 60's, and 70's cars. I am lost.
On the drivers side of the engine, above the genny on a smooth flat spot, on the block there will be a identifier # will start with P 23 for a 1952 Plymouth engine as it is a P23 model. here is a link for you to identify the engine, or if it is not original you can find out what you have. Battery cable is hooked up negative ground as far as I can see, someone just pulled the positive off the solenoid for some reason http://www.t137.com/registry/help/otherengines/otherengines.php
Okay, I couldn't wait until tomorrow. I wire brushed that flat spot. Its says P23, then a series of numbers. I have to wire brush it better to see the rest of them. I shoved my phone down inside near the starter, and here's the tag: I couldn't find anything on the Gen at all. So I snapped a photo of the wires going to it. The Gen sure looks old. Please don't laugh here, but this looks original too, if it has anything to do with it? I tried pulling the one rear bulb on the car, the rest are missing, for except the headlamps. It is a dual filament like a 1157 style. But there are no numbers anywhere on it, for me to see what volt. Maybe I can just pull a headlamp tomorrow, and they will say something on the back of one? Sure starting to seem it wasn't converted, but someone used a 12V battery and coil, and also hooked the battery up wrong. I am just guessing of course. Also....my car don't have turn signals. Theres not turn signal handle from the factory? Is that odd? .
yup, thats 6 volt alright, most likely so is the genny and voltage regulator. okay so get a 6 volt battery, make sure battery cables are good, and start it up, and see if this genny charges, you will see it on a multi meter or watch the ammeter gauge. You could start it with the 12 volt battery, then pull off a battery cable, if she stays running she is charging, do not turn on the lights with 12 volts until you know what you have. As far as the coil is concerned, don't be too concerned, it is an external resistor type, so it requires a voltage drop to stay running cool too. Those wire on the genny appear original, heavy, and not too bad of shape, 6 volt systems require heavier gauge wire as the current draw is higher, and contact and ground connections are more critical. For more info and details on this type of vehicle especially in the stock form go here. http://p15-d24.com/
I will do that tomorrow. I will switch the cables around like they should be, "if they reach", then if it starts, I will pull the negative cable off, after it is running. Of course, hooking it up like a positive ground system! I will throw my meter on the battery and see if it is charging. I am glad you said that, I was wondering if the coil would hurt anything, just running for a few minutes. If all goes well, then I will get a 6 volt battery and coil!! .
or start it with negative ground, should not make much difference, if it has been done already. the voltage reg may be fired if it were run on 12 volts negative ground, if it is a 6 volt positive ground, you can get another VR if needed, that genny may need attention too, they also make 6 volt positive ground GM 10SI 1 wire alts...good luck and post your findings
Thanks very much for your advise. I was wondering if that VR took a **** from being run that way for a few minutes at a time! I will know tomorrow I suppose. If it did, I suppose it won't charge if the VR is bad? I am sorry, I hate doing wiring! I am better at the mechanical stuff. If it isn't charging, as in tired Genny....who makes a direct bolt up 6 volt positive ground GM 10SI 1 wire alt? Hopefully it is working, but we will see... I see summit has a 6 volt battery. I have a summit credit card, that will help for now, if the posts are on the sides they need to be. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ult-9010-044/overview/ . .
It would be better, and easier, to leave it 6V. Cars like yours work perfectly well on 6v. Converting to 12v always sounds like a good idea - to those who have never done it. Those of us who have, usually suggest leaving them alone. Do you have the original 6v coil or can you get it from the seller? If not, you can use practically any 6v coil even an old Bosche "Blue" coil off a VW bug. The Jeep coil will be perfect. Your car is + ground meaning the + or positive side of the battery is grounded, while the - or negative provides power. The coil +side should be connected to the distributor and the - side connected to the ignition or power side.
Any auto electric place usually makes these up, around $100, you will need a bracket adaptor, or make your own, it's not very difficult, can take some pics for you on 1 of mine. Mine is 12 volts, but the idea is the same. Google search both a 6 v pos grnd GM 1 wire alt, and a universal bracket. First things first, see what you have going on, then see what you want to do or what you need....
The guys who told you to change to 12v have barely scratched the surface of what has to be done to change your car over. And, if you try their advice and it doesn't work don't expect them to answer your questions - they will be strangely silent. I am a bit surprised your car has no turn signals because they were made mandatory in most states in 1951. However, it is not too hard to add them. You can buy a turn signal switch that fastens on your steering column and change your tail light and parking light sockets to double filament, and wire them up. You will also need a flasher unit. The turn signals turn up at flea markets and I think they still sell new ones too. It helps if you have some knowledge of electricity, but ordinary garage mechanics used to install them all the time.
I would like to keep it 6V if possible. I want to try and keep the car mostly original. I really like the look of everything. I don't know if that limits me from much? Like far drives...etc. I can order that Jeep 6V coil from summit, or even rock auto. Their not very much. Don't have the original coil. Just stacks of chrome in big boxes. I better check the coil wires too now that you brought it up. Got ya, negative battery cable to the solenoid, and the positive battery cable to the ground on the engine.
Invest in a 6v coil and battery. Batteries can be bought from farm stores, lots of older tractors use them, or from auto parts stores. A lot of old car guys swear by the Optima type, but they are more expensive than the good ol' black box. It is possible to start and run on 12 volts but the battery won't charge. Be sure you turn off all lights, radio, wipers, etc. or you will burn them out. Including the dome light. I have even run on a 12v battery for up to half an hour but then the original 6v coil heated up and quit. It worked ok again after it cooled down though.
I have an alternator shop about 10 minutes from me, I think their still open. They have been there for years. Maybe they can rebuild my Gen if needed? I don't know if they can still do that or not to these old ones. .
6v won't limit you in any way, except possibly installing a 12v stereo and there are ways around that. Any good auto electric shop can rebuild your generator and starter, adjust voltage regulator etc.
I seen the optima at summit....link below...It is the same price as the black box from advance near me. I may grab it. Not very attractive though, like the older looking style. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ult-9010-044/overview/ And this coil... http://www.summitracing.com/parts/omx-1724701 with summit, my stuff is here next day.
Your pics show the coil in the right place but should be held by a metal clamp not tie wraps! Hope you have the original parts or can get them from the previous owner. Top is missing off the air filter. It should be filled to the mark with 50 motor oil. Do you have the top? That type filter lasts the life of the car. All you need to do, every 10000 miles or so, rinse the filter medium in Varsol or kerosene, do not blow dry, you will make channels in the filter. Let it drip dry then pour a little 50 weight on it, clean the sludge out of the base, fill with oil and put the top back on. There you are set. Just check at tune up or service time, if the base is not full of dirt and sludge just top up the oil if necessary. Engine is idling WAY too fast. If in good shape, those motors idle down to 400 to 450 RPM. You would say, that is impossible, it would stall out, but they never do. Not if in good condition and tuned up right.
Yes, if it isn't charging, I can go to the alt shop, if he is still in business. Hopefully it is charging!
If you want to know what motor you have, the serial number is on the left side of the block, at the front, just below the head and above the generator. The number should start with P23 if it is a 52 Cranbrook or Cambridge, P22 if it is a Concord.
I checked the box of parts. I may have to get on ebay for the bracket for the coil, I saw that too. I do have the lid for the air cleaner, pic below, I have to take the lid off and see whats inside of it. I don't know if the filter is in there. Yes, I agree, it is idling way too high. I used to get my old Beetles to idle way down low. That video was taken from the guy that owned it before my buddy bought it. I haven't had a chance to mess with anything until now. .
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