Lousy shop employees and lousy customers are found in all walks of life. This post has interesting and funny stories but I also want to say that I have had good experiences with two different dealers in the Atlanta area. Everything was above board. I did my homework to know what I should be able to settle for and never had any cost introduced after the deal was agreed upon. Of course I also asked at the end of the discussion if any other costs were involved. I find that most people are adverse to confrontation of all levels, which makes buying a new car for them very difficult. That confrontation can be something as minor as a counter offer or as intrusive as a wholesale argument. This to say that the dealer is going to negotiate and that scares the **** out of a lot of people. It puts them in a defensive mood as well. CarMax sets a vehicle price like a grocery store sets the price of a head of lettuce. If you want the car and like the price, take it otherwise move on.
I think that the extra cost in some of the posts has to do with where they are from, in Missouri for instance, the dealer gives you your ***le or the paperwork to apply for a ***le and you get that changed at the DMV when you pay tax and license. I think in some states the dealer incurs that cost, a smart dealer in that situation would build that into the price of the car and not as an add on. On the other hand anyone purchasing a car in a state where that is the deal should know that they are going to be paying for that service. Being knowledgeable of costs can save a lot of heartache. There used to be a MOPAR dealership in a town that I lived in that also had the DMV concession (in Missouri the DMV is run by private citizens and monitored by the state), that went on about forever and if you purchased vehicles from him you became friends and things got easier. One day someone figured out that it was a conflict of interest and he lost the concession. Damned shame, life in that county was a lot easier when he had the DMV in his dealership.
just watch our for(or be aware of) that some of the little offices that you and the salesman are sitting in making the deal.some of those offices have hidden mikes and when the salesman goes to present your offer to the sales manager,they sit in his office and eaves drop on your converstaion with your wife and have ready answers or even a better deal after hearing you tell your wife that if he will do this or that,I will buy it..I know of one dealership that used this tactic for years..
Recording the customer's private conversations is a highly illegal practice with extremely stiff penalties. That went out in the 80's.
Here's the customer a car dealer hates to see. The guy went on a test drive when the "customer" pulled a knife, threatened the dealer who was riding in the car, then stole the car. The dealer is OK, the "customer" was ventilated but appears that he will live. http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/28732684/police-officers-shoot-carjacker-near-stone-mountain He says the carjacking began at CarNections, a used car lot in Tucker in DeKalb County, several miles away. The owner, Anthony Butcher, told me he thought a man wanted a test drive of the GMC Denali. "He told me it's cash and he didn't want to walk down the street from the Hampton INN with that much cash in his pocket" , said Butcher. He says he agreed to drive him to the Hampton Inn about a half mile away which is where the phony customer revealed his true intentions.
A friendly acquaintance's family was involved in the local retail auto business back in the 60s. He told of one of his dad's pals who had a Studebaker dealership a**** others. One flashy salesman (maybe fond of liquid lunches) took out one of the new Avantis and smacked it up somehow. Shortly thereafter he pulled the same stunt on a second Avanti. My friend laughed when describing two badly damaged Avantis lined up outside the dealership and the owner stomping around with smoke coming out of his ears.
The situation I spoke of,there was NO recording of customers converstations. They were just listening in
The whole legal angle on any of then is up to the courts. It is best for us to keep to ethical arguments and stories of interest. We probably should avoid the ethical end of it as well as they breed drama. Funny is good though. I lived in a small town in the south one time for a couple of months, small town as in no stop light small town. it didn't have a new car dealer but it had a used car lot. They had a Coronet, a big block car, on the lot and the guy said that it had belonged to this little old lady and she only drove it to church. Well I met the little old lady, she was driving a super bee, that she did drive to church. Church was about15 miles up the road and she drove that bee like she stole it. The joke about it was that everyone in town knew the little old lady.
A small town in West Georgia (Bowdon) had a used car dealer west of the city in the 60s that bought cars at state auctions. Most of them were Georgia State Patrol cars, 2 door Ford sedans with hipo 390s with a stick. Every kid in town had a bad *** ride. To this day, West Georgia is still Ford Country.
Not to go down this path again, but it's not the recording part, it's the interception/surveillance part that matters. States' laws vary but it's a good idea to keep up with them.
LOL its comes down to eavesdropping doesn't it. In this new millennium we want to say simple things all fancy and legal like, when any one of us knows better then to eavesdrop. I went to look at an OT pickup truck with a guy in the late '80s while I was still in Mexico ( we were looking her in KC). I am not sure if we looked hayseedish (I am sure I did I was living on the backside of nowhere) or the salesman was just dumb as wood, maybe both. Anyway it was a new 4WD and had a throttle body injected V6. The salesman was telling the guy that it had that new electronic ignition so he wouldn't have to worry about points and plugs and that it was a 2 bbl so it would get good mileage, and had auto-locking hubs. It had lockout hubs and no doubt was electronic after all it was the late '80s wasn't it? Didn't have a carb. The guy bought it anyway because he had done his research and he didn't mind the price. but we laughed about it over lunch.
This thing about sittting in the little room while the salesman goes to talk about a "deal" has always concerned me. Usually my wife is with me and as we wait I've told her to not say things about how much I like the car or what I'd be willing to pay. Sometimes a sock in her mouth is necessary! On my last wheeling and dealing I was interested in a used red HHR panel truck. Temporary insanity! The salesman left us alone at least two or more times to let his "boss" know my final offers. I'm not saying they could hear us talking. But it sure seemed like they knew what we were thinking just by their offers and conversations when he'd come back. I decided I didn't really want that thing so made rediculous counter offers. In the past I was always a ****er and wanted a car so bad I'd paid extra if they asked. I actually had a pretty good deal going. Still I felt like they knew what we were saying while we waited. It was almost like I was baiting them for a change. It's kinda like being at a **** beach alone and thinking you are being watched. Not that we've ever done that! Anyway reality set in and I'm still driving my Dodge truck.
I had a freshly built '70 AMC 360 in my '69 AMC Rebel in '78. Got hit while sitting at a stop sign and totaled the Rebel. Went to my friendly local AMC dealer and told them I as looking for a Hornet, Javelin, or American to put my engine in. These guys had been selling my dad cars since they owned the Hudson and Studebaker dealerships. They called me a couple weeks later and found a former customer with a worn out engine in a '68 AMC Javelin that was coming back to Iowa to visit and trade cars while they were there. It was a 6cly/3 speed car from Arizona (I'm in Iowa). They trucked it back to Iowa, traded with the lady that had bought the Javelin new and sold the Javelin to me for $400. Nice rust free car. Talked them down to $350 since it needed a fender and brakes. I drove it for a week, fixed the exhaust, put my bigger Rebel brakes on it, put an AMX rear in it and got it thru the state inspection required at the time. Dealer calls me wanting to know when I'm pulling the 6/3 speed. Told him I had to wait to get into a friend's shop. They offered the use of their shop evenings and weekends, kind of odd but appreciated. The next evening we went down and my dad and I pulled the engine/****** and rolled the car back out of the building for the night. We took the engine and ****** home when we left that night. Dealer is waiting on me the next night wanting to know where the ****** went. Told him it was at home. He wanted it. Asked what he would pay for it. He said "the use of my shop". I said, "I already have that, what else you got?". These guys had screwed my dad for years but he apparently enjoyed it because he kept going back. They offered $50 for the ****** and I told them I would think about it. The next night he asked about that ****** again. I told him I thought I would just keep it. He offered $100. Told him I would think about it. While we were setting the 360 in the Javelin, the parts man came over to chat. He mentioned the owner really wanted, and needed, that ******. Said to hold out for at least $200. There were no parts available for some reason and no ******s like that in any local junk yards. The dealer came in the next day as we were finishing up and wanted to know what it would take to get the ******. Told him $200 and it was his. He whipped the cash out and gave it to me, followed us home and I loaded it in his trunk. Seems he had promised a customer a ****** repair on a used car he sold and then couldn't get the parts. ****** was the same as the Javelin ****** so I would solve his problem or he lost the sale. Javelin ended up costing me $150 after that deal and I had cash back in my hand for new headers and an intake. Dealer never really got over being mad at me but I just lived with it. SPark
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ So is speeding !!!!!!!!! but I bet you still do it
LOL in Missouri you can film someone if you don't record sound or you can record someone if you don't film them. I still haven't figure out how all that works with cellphone video.
Not a lawyer, they are bottom feeders for the most part but when you need one you need one. I did use to run my phone through my computer and record any and all conversations. My attorney actually suggested it as I was having some telephone problems at the time. When I asked him he explained the law concerning recording in the good ol' state of Missouri and mentioned that even if one is not going to do law for a living it is a good idea to know the basics of what the laws are where you live. Another "law" has nothing to do with dealers but just for information. In the state of Missouri there is no open container law but lots of people have paid a price for that one just because they didn't know and the other bottom feeders in the legal industry are those enforcing the laws. I look at it this way, I like to watch Hockey, I don't really know the rules very well but I still like to watch the game. If I were playing Hockey and not just a spectator I would know the rules inside and out. Well we all live the legal system whether it is buying a car or driving the kids to soccer practice, or riding the bus. We probably should at least have some idea what the rules are. That said, like I mentioned earlier discussing the legal or moral aspects of anything is just drama. Way more fun to tell stories and laugh about it.
Now back to our regularly scheduled program. More fun and crazy tales..... In late 1966 when the first Mercury Cougars were introduced for the new '67 model year my dad's dealership received a sharp looking dark green with a black vinyl roof XR7 I stood there watching "****", his clean up and detail man, pull it into the wash bay to prep it for the showroom. **** pops the trunk and pulls the box out with the wheel covers and this mystery unfolds. He snaps them on and he and dad are commenting how they have an unusual center emblem for a Mercury. Do you see where this is going yet? Yup, 1967 Mustang wheel covers. It gets better. **** removes these paper and plastic protectors from the seats, door panels and steering wheel. I'm not paying much attention because I'm running a buffer over the nose and trying to keep away from the crowd of employees hovering around the 2 open doors. Everyone in the joint is commenting and pointing fingers at the interior. I finally kill my buffer and squeeze in for a look. WTF? this thing has a black leather interior with a very dark blue Mustang steering wheel and the front door panels are dark blue, almost black but still f@%%*ng blue. The car went into hiding in the back yard and the dealership waited for weeks for another new introductory Cougar to arrive. The goofy thing is the next Cougar the dealership received was sold as soon as it came off the truck. More problems again. I recall the front end was a perpetual problem with the new owner. Every time the guy took it up to 60 mph or greater the front end would go out of alignment. It would pull, or develop tire squeal in turns, experience tire scrubbing. It was severe. The best front end tech we had and a factory rep were on it from the start. They replaced numerous parts many times over but it was never cured. My memory is a little fuzzy at this point as to if the alignment issue was ever resolved but I think the disgusted owner traded off for a Oldsmobile or a new Ford at one of the other dealerships on the same street.
The dealership I'm currently employed at is a Toyota agency. In the 60's 70's and 80's it handled Dodge Chrysler and Plymouth. I wasn't working there in the 60's - early 80's era but my boss relayed this story to me. Around the 1975 or maybe 1976 time they received a new Chrysler Cordoba right off the new car transporter. It was delivered with some minor front end damage that no one caught 'till the following day. The dealership called their Chrysler rep to look the damage over and hopefully take the car back. The rep shows up a few days later, looks the car over and tells my boss to go piss up a rope, we own it. His reason......Not Enough Major Damage, only minor stuff. My boss a few days later calls in the service manage who had a habit of keeping a bottle in his lower desk drawer and had a reputation of not being a stable character. The service manager removes from the trunk of his car, his high school aged son's football helmet. The somewhat lit up service manager pulls the helmet on, jumps in the slightly damaged Cordoba and backs it up about 100' from the outside wall of the service department. The guy does a nifty John Force like burn out and runs the new Cordoba into the wall as hard as he could. He crushed it hard. Boss calls in a different rep, that guy looks it over and stabs the windshield with a yellow do***ent that states this car in not for sale. Car carrier picks it up to return it to Chrysler, my boss gets a check and the service manager gets a ride from the boss and general manager to a bar and they party 'till midnight. True story. You can still see the marks left in the side wall of the service department to this day.
Jimmy G..........man, you need to come down "from on top of Mount Pisgah"......that high al***ude seems to have you suffering from extended oxygen deprivation!! Ray
Ray............It's a miserable day outside here. I got a nasty cold I picked up while at the auction this week, I'm too sick to go out to the garage and work on my cars, soooo I'm stuck inside for the day. Just thought I'd interject a little humor into our lives this morning. Besides, this thread was getting too political since last week. We need to make people SMILE again!
yea if nothing else they had plastic helmets by the '60s. Although I would almost give up a testicle for a leather helmet just to put on before I test drove a new super charged vette. The look on *Marty's face would be priceless. *I have known the part owner of one of the local chevy dealers since he was a little kid, his first "hot rod" ride was in a '64 Chevelle owned by yours truly when I was working for the dealership.
Car Dealers in New England endure this stuff 4 or 5 months per year. Makes it tough on us, especially when the customer arrives expecting to pay thousands less for the car than we had to pay for it. "You mean to tell me I shoveled this yard all day to get this car out so you can rob it from me for penny's on the dollar?"
Sometime back in the mid 60's my dad took in trade from a customer a '65 Ford full-size four door sedan. All black with a gold interior in vinyl. It was immaculate but boring as heck to look at. The thing looked like a cop car. One day he sends me over to Ace Seat Cover Company. He tells me to have Chick, the owner of Ace put some fancy cloth inserts into the seats and doll it up a bit. I drop it off to Chick and give him my dad's instructions to pretty it up. Chick phones me back later in the afternoon to come down and look at something he found under the seats. The car looks beautiful when I spot it outside his shop. New inserts and Chick even installed a gold colored vinyl roof for us for only $65 additional bucks. This guy is an artist with vinyl and cloth. Imagine an ink black big Ford, gold vinyl & cloth seats and a gold colored vinyl roof. This thing is outstanding looking....a one of one as we say in the collector car circle. Chick hands the bill to me along with a notebook found under the rear seat. The Top heading reads JOHNSTON RHODE ISLAND POLICE DEPARTMENT. He had more stuff for me in a cigar box, all loaded with COP stuff. This car had been a cruiser in it's former life ****!....disappointing news to learn that fine day. I think dad loss was about $800 bucks when he finally sold it and had to declare its prior history. Shame on us for not knowing better back in those days.
Had another Ford come to us, a similar type. Traded it from a shifty individual from Watertown. Car was a full-size 4 door 1968 Custom Sedan, had A/C, dark green color, black interior and a 428 engine. That engine alone made me su****ious. The car just reeked of FEDERAL. Mr. "Shifty" denied up and down, on his dead mother's grave it wasn't a cop or federal car, and he bought when it was only a year old from Belmont Ford blah blah, blah, never been in the service. "No problem" I figure, I'm going to low ball the **** out of him and steal this lump from him. He immediately jumps on my first figure, writes the check and drives a nice 2 year old Coupe De Ville home that night. I sold the Ford a couple of weeks later, told the new owner I suspected the Ford had been in the service and he was fine with it. He loved the 428 engine.............and he was a cop!
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