Projects The bucket of ugly! A de-uglifying thread...

Because I've not seen him on here to ask him

 

The reason I was wanting a very low frame was to get the seating low enough that I would not need to go to the complexity of an air suspension set up. Up until last fall, I had the whole car laid out in the CAD system, based on the main frame rail at 6" off the ground,and the body not being channeled. The pedal space was tight but do-able. I wish I still had those plans, but they were on a now defunct PC. I think I'm going to play with reverse engineering a low set up from what I have now.

 

Cool! You got more information in a few minutes than I've been able to get from the lo0cal DMV in 2 years. Thanks!

The "Certificates of title for any major components that came from a previous vehicle." is going to be a problem. My engine and transmission were an ebay purchase, and the guy I got them from is long gone.

 

Sounds pretty straightforward to me. Once you've gathered all your receipts, I'd then go to the local sheriff and find out what an "inspection" entails. My guess is that it's simply an "eyes on" verification by an authorized agency that your assembly of parts is what you say it is. Again, very straightforward.

The idea is to find out exactly what they need to move you along to the next step, and then provide it. If they need receipts, get receipts. If they need a notarized statement, get one. If they need an eyes-on inspection, do it. Instead of depending on hear-say and wringing your hands, just take it one step at a time and get it done.

 

There is no "certificate of title" required because you didn't use any "major components" (frame) from a previous vehicle. You built your frame (rcpt for mtls or labor) and bought your engine/transmission on eBay (rcpt for engine/transmission). You bought (rcpt) or built (notarized statement) the body.

C'mon, man. This isn't rocket science nor is it designed to prevent you from building a hot rod. They just want to be sure the stuff you are using isn't stolen. Play the game, pay the fees and get your title.

 

Google is your friend

 

Did we used to over think this shit so much before we started a build or did we just jump into it and work it out later? Maybe that's why the $200 truck I just bought will cost me $2000 before I get it on the road. That's alright though I worked it out and got it done and I'll be driving a truck worth $5000 this week and it was fun doing it. This is supposed to be fun. Come-on the DMV wants to register your vehicle and their are lots of ways to do it. All not really 100% on the up and up but ask yourself have you ever heard of anybody getting into any trouble registering a car that wasn't stolen.
Sorry guys but you are driving me crazy and it's really a short trip.
Gary

 

As far as the engine and trans go, just go back in your ebay history and print the won auction page, and to be safe, print your profile page showing your user name and legal name.

 

Gary, we were once young and dumb and we did just jump in feet first and never gave much thought of what it was going to cost by the time we were done and also figured out the solutions to the problems when they cropped up.

 

I hear ya, Rebel. Years ago, I went to the DMV to register a car. The lady at the window told me I was missing a signature from the previous owner. I stood there mad and confused. She leaned forward and whispered, "I bet if you go to the parking lot, he's out there." I went outside, signed the owners name, went back in and walked out with plates and a sticker. The system works, IF you work it.

 

Thank you the voice of reason Fred. Somebody gets it. THEY WANT TO REGISTER YOUR CAR. Another question. Did you ever know anybody that built a car and couldn't get it registered. No me neither.

 

<sigh> I want to thank Dick Stevens again for the first real in writing applicable info I've been able to get in 3 attempts over 2+ years. To those who have had such an easy time accomplishing their registration(s) in the past, I'm happy for you. Until today, the only two local people I've been able to talk to both indicated they were not so lucky. Now that Dick has given me somewhere to start, hopefully my journey will be as smooth as any bureaucratic journey can be.

 

Hope things go smooth.

 

You know Bill as Fred said I hope things go well for too. And they will. Don't worry it will get done, just build what you like. Remember those people at the DMV work for you. Your tax dollars pay their salary. Tell them what you have and ask them what you have to do to get it registered.
Gary

 

Yes there are regular bureaucratic insanity stories on the dedicated T Bucket sites I'm on, and from the 2 local folks I've talked to who've been through the maze.

So far I have 3 trips to 2 different offices, and all I have in hand to show for those trips is the instructions for applying for a salvage title. I made the first trip just a few weeks after deciding to embark on this adventure...I wanted to do things right from the start.

The thing is, back in the day there was not nearly the degree of bureaucracy that there is today. My last time titling an assembled vehicle (roughly 1988) took a trip to the local DMV to get a list of the inspection criteria supplied by a clerk who had a clue, and a 2nd trip to get the vehicle inspected according to that criteria...mission accomplished. A little over a year ago, when we bought a car in perfect working order from a dealer in Ohio (less than 15 miles away) it took 4 trips to 3 locations (DMV,clerk of courts, and Sheriff) in 2 towns to get it retitled here.

Things ain't what they used to be

 

It's not a matter of them trying to make the process difficult...It's a matter of them having no clue. Two of them admitted that they had no idea and were just guessing...the "deer in headlights" looks from the other two clerks I dealt with told where they were coming from. At least today I have found out that there is no emission or safety inspection, so I guess I don't have to worry about things like headlight height or having to have windshield wipers on my Brooklands screens...LOL

 

7

You know, that's usually the problem here as well. I would put out a post on the various hot rod boards (including this one) asking if anyone in your general vicinity has had "good" luck with a dmv office / rep. and go there. If you can't find anyone, print out all the applicable parts of the Kentucky(?) vehicle code and take them with you for backup! Several years ago, SEMA published a state by state guide to registration procedures...

http://www.semasan.com/page.asp?content=tag_title_toolbox&g=SEMAGA


Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!

 

Hey, Bill;
Another place I'd go looking for good info, is the KSRA. &, yup, I'm 'assuming' here, that there is a Kentucky Street Rod Assoc. (the state div of the NSRA). Say what you will about "street rods", but there have been a lot of folks in the organization that have worked w/the legislators trying to keep the laws somewhat doable. I don't have to like the way things are, but they could be worse... Those cats will know what the path(s) are, as they've probably been down that road more than once. & usually, they're very willing to help out. Another possibility in the titleing arena is AAA office. May take some phoning to find out who really knows what, & where are they in the state, but it'd be worth it.

As far as the folks at the DMV, I'm not going to get into just what the STATE is, who they actually work for, who actually pays them, etc. Suffice it to say that the STATE does benefit greatly from you registering the car you build. + all the fees that generates. That process can be a real PITA, but I've found that the little license shops, etc, usually don't know what is really going on, nor how to do it. & if they're on a power-trip, arrogant, bitchy, etc, *Don't Argue* - just walk out & cross that one off your list. I do take note of names at the places I'm at, 1st, then when there's a problem, I'll mention those names at the main office, if need be. Although, since once in a while you actually do find someone who is competent & helpful at one of those shops, it's still worth going & asking them. "Just don't over-expect!" So what I've done is go to the main office in the state - hopefully, it's not too far, (you could call - but it's a crap-shoot on who you get, & their mood), & watch to see who has a decent attitude & seems helpful - tell them you've been given the run-around, & would really like their help - & listen. If they don't know, ask them who does. You might need to talk to a supervisor. It can't hurt to explore the web 1st, & have the paperwork w/you, asking "is this correct?". & there may be more than one way to accomplish what you want/need, as it depends on what/where you want to end up. Dick Stevens did give you some really good info.

For frames: You'll have to ask about a MSO.

As far as Chip Quinn (in AZ) is concerned, all *you* have to do is pick up the ph & dial it. Chip's just about the nicest guy you'll talk to/meet. His ph# is: 602/881-0175.

Another very nice guy that builds really low & well proportioned T-buckets & they have acres of room inside, trad style, track, & could (don't know if he *would*) duplicate Cottons' yellow car, etc, is Jim Unruh. At Lion's Hot Rods (in McHenry IL). Does very nice work - I know Jim & have seen his work. 815/321-9828.
BTW: forgot to mention, Jim doesn't do social media, nor computers. Ph, letters, & face-time are it. Not a bad thing.

FWIW.
Marcus...

 

Bill

I mentioned the unregistered truck I just bought. After one trip to the DMV I realized I didn't know the right lies to tell the woman behind the desk so I turned it over to a professional. Yes $400 later I should have my registration Wednesday, tomorrow. Money well spent. Really you are talking to the wrong people here. You need to talk to someone that knows what they are doing. I'm sure their is someone in your area that does that. 20/20 hind sight after seeing what he did I could have done it but he was a professional and really earned his money. He actually knew what to say to to the DMV to get the address of the last owner (the DMV person said she couldn't give it to me) and tracked him down and actually talked him into signing a DMV bill of sale. He was so good the previous owner called me and congratulated me for owning the old truck that his dad bought new. I had left a note with my phone # at the wrong house (where his brother lived). Yes I was that far off. The guy I hired said he thought he might actually be able to get the DMV to wave some of their charges that will offset some of the $400 I had paid him. Anyway Bill with all your questions I think you should talk to a Professional.

Gary

 

I've already started a folder of PDFs of the pages and the referenced form. Based on what I'm seeing now, I need to track down their definition of "Classic Project title", and if I should try to get a VIN as the car being a 1923 Ford Model T, or just make up my own make and model. Seeing that the only actual Model T part is likely to be the passenger side door hinge, getting the VIN as a T seems dishonest<shrug>

I'll have to go back to the SEMA site...I checked it out a couple years ago, but maybe they have more KY info now.

 

That may be a big issue; I know a few years ago my state flat-out told me that eBay paper was worth zero, you needed either the actual title of the vehicle that the major component came from, a copy of the title would be acceptable but the vehicle had to be in your name, a receipt from a licensed auto dismantler, or a receipt from a business that sells new/rebuilt components (like crate motors). They grudgingly admitted that they might accept a notarized bill of sale from a private party, but it would need complete info on it; buyer/seller names/addresses, donor vehicle vin number, etc.

 

I've never heard of the KSRA...I'll have to look into them.

I'll definitely be calling Chip if things do not pan out with Ron Pope. I've already told him that I want him to do the job, when we visited him at his shop last fall. So the job is his to turn down. Plus with Ron, picking up the frame ourselves and saving hundreds on shipping is a very real possibility.

Really, the frame as my plans stand now is very simple...just Ron's standard frame with the main rails shortened 6" and the rear sections lengthened 3". The out of the ordinary area is the bracketry...and I have all of the brackets except for a conventional front perch, and the ones for the rear control arms. Those control arm brackets would just be cut out of angle iron.

Going any lower would seriously complicate the frame and and potentially those control arm brackets. Duplicating Cotton's frame would be WAY out of my league in both complexity and cost...LOL.

Lion's Hot Rods sounds familiar. Do they sell bodies? I may have called them during the body search.

 

I'd love to talk to a professional. How did you find the pro you worked with? Based on the stories I got from the two local folks (One a 32 Ford bodied car, the other a 34 Plymouth bodied car), $400 would be a bargain to smooth out the process.

 

This could put a serious crimp in things for me , I have 3 350 blocks that I picked up as long as 30 years ago , trades , barter , whatever , all came from private parties that are long since dead .... does this mean I can't use these engines in other projects , if that's so , something is definitley wrong w/ the system !!
dave

 

That is exactly my biggest fear. Probably 50+% of my parts have been obtained through ebay...the major being the motor, transmission, and body. Though through ebay, the motor and transmission came from a small hot rod shop. I've tried contacting both sellers, and both seem to have vaporized into thin air.

 

I'm thinking along the same lines now. It should just be a matter of the VIN being checked for being stolen. I may soon have a bunch of parts for sale

 

That's why I won't buy anything without a clear title anymore, and even with those there can be issues. If you buy an incomplete or seriously-in-need-of-repair vehicle, be prepared to pay sales tax on the blue book value unless you want to get saddled with a 'salvage' title or inspection requirements, although this primarily applies to later-model vehicles, but they've gotten sticky about collector vehicles lately too. Even though I bought my avatar from a licensed dealer with all 'normal' paperwork, I still had to sign an affidavit stating that the value was in line with collector car blue book values. I bought a titled motorcycle frame a few years earlier, and found that I would have to show 'acceptable' documentation/receipts for everything I bought if I didn't pretend it was a complete bike. The sales tax/transfer fees were more than I paid for the frame. Do your research, it can be a real thicket anymore....

 

And here I was all this time thinking that America was the land of the free.

 

In some ways it's worse, some ways better. This is all about stolen cars/chop shops and given the number of long-lost recovered vehicles we've heard about lately, not a bad deal. But it does make it more complicated if you're mashing parts/cars without a clear title. Washington state used to require that any out-of-state vehicle had to be inspected, and if all numbers didn't match you had a serious problem. They got away from that finally, this was the trade-off. As usual, a few crooks ruined it for the rest of us....

 

I totally get trying to minimize the trade in stolen parts, but this is totally off the deep end. Yes, run the VINs for parts that have them. Yes, require receipts for major parts...but get out of the 1980s and accept online transaction documentation. And the biggie, have the rules for all of this available in print at every DMV office, with heads-up posters on the walls and prominently featured on DMV web sites.

Last night I was starting to feel good about the up coming registration process...Today I'm sick about it...and the couple of grand I've wasted over the last 2 years.