Technical Practicality of a HAMB daily

5 yrs ago I sold my `92 K1500, 350, 700r4 and bought a `63 short fleetside for my DD. I bought it the way it looks but plan to dial back the street rodder persona. Except for power steering, front discs, 5spd and a pick-a-part bench seat to replace the OG with broken springs it has no creature comfort upgrades. My driving days started before cup holders and backup cameras so I don't feel I'm missing much. Plus, collector car insurance is cheaper and better coverage.

 

LOL my engines sweet spot is @ 3K the 4L60E has a final drive of .69 (or .7 if you prefer) with a 3.08 gear and a 28" tires that puts me between 116 and 118 MPH. Guess I would need to move to Nevada.

 

Every chance I get I drive my deuce sedan but I am dreaming about rebuilding my old 65 Ford pickup into a daily,it's got a 302 and a 4 speed. HRP

 

Well its doomed as a daily. You should build it ford tuff with chebby stuff then it will be a daily hot rod.

 

Actually, in the real world it is more important to be able to get in your daily driver half asleep, hit the key, drive to work and drive home, and not have to open the hood or stop for gas every day. Generally for a daily driver this is more important than getting that last 1/10 of a second off the quarter mile. That was fun to do when I was in my 20s and street racing but those days are over, and funny I don't see any shoe polish on any windshields in the parking lot at work either.
The idea is to match your transmission ratios to your final drive ratio taking into account tire size and desired cruising RPM, yours is not optimized and should not be an example on why or why not to use a transmission.

 

Actually if the transmission doesn't fit the build it is the best reason in the world not to use it. It doesn't mean that everyone shouldn't use one.

One of the things that the uneducated/uniformed ( not you so don't take it personal) commonly think is that OD and tall gears means good mileage and that simply is not true. Everything needs to be suited to its own situation. Its like I posted earlier with your tranny and gear setup my cruising would be well over 100, that is frowned on in most states and most people with even a modicum of common sense. I guess driving half asleep like driving half intoxicated is probably not a good choice either but with many who work it is just a way of life no getting around it. maybe that is why they have gone to such lengths to make modern cars as operator proof as possible.

 

To me, the daily driver is about safety in addition to reliability. No matter what anyone here says, there's no way an older vehicle can compete with newer stuff, and I'm not talking about just weight or sheer mass of a vehicle in an impact.

My daily driver is 12 years old. It has AWD, ABS Brakes, Traction control and anti-skid controls, ten (yes 10) airbags, self tensioning seatbelts and weighs 3600lbs. My 51 Merc has none of those things and weighs 3900 lbs. If I had my choice in a head-to-head collision, there's no question the daily is the safer car.

 

I take nothing personally, I build my cars my way for me
I choose my transmission and rear gear based on what engine I am running and what I want my cruise RPM at for that engine. 47 Caddy engine makes plenty of low end torque and works great with the 4L60E \ 3:08 gear and my tire diameter, the whole setup is pretty much a copy of the 9C1 police car the engine and trans came out of, including rear gear ratio. Car was built to cruise the highway at low RPM and does exactly that. It is an "operator proof" car that drives down the road with no fanfare (other than knowing how to feather the gas to keep the wipers moving!)
This years F1 build uses a higher winding 383 with 4:10s and double overdrive T56 which will be a bit quicker than the caddy but still do fine on the highway.

 

If you're using collector insurance for your daily and the insurance company finds out, you won't have any insurance....

 

Well I don't know what you call high winding but if you are cruising below where you start to climb up on the cam you are overworking your engine. That was why I mentioned that my current small block has a sweet spot of 3K that is where it starts to climb up on the cam, anytime you run your engine below where it starts to make torque you overwork your engine and are not running it efficiently. That usually equates to poor mileage.

The reason that modern cars can spin 6 or 7 K and still run at 1800 RPM has to do with variable timing and fuel maps. Cam timing, spark and fuel delivery/charge can be optimized in nano seconds as opposed to a carbureted engine that the cam timing and spark are pretty much static. Even if you out a control box o in to adjust your spark which is less then a 3rd of the equation you can't keep up with the computer. That in part is why gearing and being purpose built is so important with our old cars. it is also why OD is not always the best choice to gear mine to run well with an OD at cruise makes my low gear so deep that is it like having a bread truck tranny and just don't use low.

I meant operator proof as in lane change alarms and backup cameras and radar to apply the brakes for you by the way. But you already knew that didn't you.

Yeeep^^^^^

 

"Daily" for me is not the average. Being retired it's not like I'm on a freeway at 7am and 4pm. I do have a contemporary vehicle that mostly the wife drives, so I qualify. My insurer has no mileage or use restrictions.

 

Is there any one on here who runs a six shooter, with two small carbs, 5 speed and good gears for a daily?

I bet you could get good millage from that combo. And a cheap and bulletproof mill, that is easy service able and not hard on parts and tires.

And regarding that a OD don't help you economy, must be because you just drives faster. Because lower RPM, at least closer to a torque sweet spot, means better fuel economy!

But a good first gear helps a powerless mill to feel adequate. And the over all spacing matters most for city driving, top gear and torque makes good long distances economy

Edit. I just saw porkey was faster then me and says the same thing about gear, just tells it in another way.
But now we agree again

 

its all good, I'll delete it.

 

Phttttttt sissy. Just when the argument was getting good too.

 

gotta make this place safe for the guys who drive "half asleep"... as I said on the "naming your car" thread, man, has this place changed...

 

Not sure why you think this is an argument, or maybe you just want to argue? I am not arguing with anyone, just stating that using a 700r4 with a 4:56 rear gear is not a good example to tell the OP not to use a 700r4. Did the OP say he was going to run a 4:56? If so then yes, any trans with a 3 series first gear is not a good match. Running a 3:08 gear with a cam that doesn't start working until 3000 RPM is not a good match. I get it. I think we need an argument smiley so I know when I am in one. Gotta get back in the garage and finish up my F1 wiring, so much for the break.
Good luck to the OP, old cars are fun to drive everyday.

 

I think Gimpy has a Falcon 6 with T5 as a daily. If he's chimed in I missed it. I just got home from a trip over the GG Bridge, saw a guy hustling along in a white '64 Mustang. Looked good, probably good daily material and prices seemed to have come down. Those early Stangs just say 'fun' to me.

 

I would think most of us have several cars,including some late models,that said some hot rods don't fit the narrow definition of traditional,it really doesn't matter.

I like old cars,whether they have late model engines or Flatheads,disc brakes or drum,your daily can be a custom,hot rod or a beater,but from experience a old car,even a original can make your day just driving back & forth to work. HRP

 

You just need to move!

 

My 2 daily drivers, one is 49 years old, the other is 85 years old.
The Wagon get's 18-20 mpg in town driving and 23+ on highway... 3 point safety belts, 4 wheel power disc brakes, Heat/AC, lots of other stuff, '06 Chevy 5.3 w/4L60E powered.
The Coupe has a 355 Chevy with a Qjet, T400 and 3.55 gears, no other options... will get 13-15 mpg around town and 20 on the highway.... would do much better with a 2.79 rear gear, I know, as I have done it on other roadsters I have built.
That my choices, and I love it!

 

My 55 with a 4bbl sbc and turbo 350 and factory rear gets 14 ALL day long. I could swap out the rear for a 3;08 and up that a couple, I guess. But even though it gets driven a lot, it isn't my choice for a DD. Too many dumbasses driving and texting, not to mention the insurance issue stated above. I feel like I cant justify crashing a hard to replace car, just because I need a loaf of bread at the grocery. My commute is 62 miles round trip and like you, I would need at least as much out of it as my OT GMC gives me. The drum brakes in today's world are marginal, but I refuse to cave, so that all leads up to my opinion. A good old wagon or sedan not all rotted with a mild 283 and a good heater would do me just fine. Something I could throw liability insurance on and salvage parts if I drove her in a ditch. There are still lots of affordable shoebox fords and early 50's chevies out there that would be good candidates for a traditional eng/trans swap and wouldn't break the bank. I'll get off here, and I hope you find your perfect DD.

 

I guess a true traditional car can't achieve all the safety issues, milage etc issues, without some type of more modern upgrades, so like my daily (avatar), traditionaly styled is going to be more appropriate.
I run a six, with a single French carb for now, and my gas milage totally depends on my foot. I like to get on it, and when I do, the thing thinks its a V8, so it can suck gas, but if I drive nicely, its real good on gas.
To have a daily with all the things Blowby mentioned, I think would be possible if specifically built for the purpose.

 

I think that if you throw the factor of safety into the equation, you shouldn't really even consider an old car.

Yes, you can make it safer, but never as safe as a modern car. As long as you are aware of it, and accept it, it's not a problem. But don't fool yourself, and think it's as safe as a modern car because it's big and heavy.

The picture below, of an accident here in Sweden last year, was a real eye opener for me. It's pretty obvious how modern crumple zones work vs. old cars without them. The people in the beemer could open the doors and get out of the car by themselves. Sadly, the people in the other car died.

It sure was a big, heavy car (mayby 600-700 lbs more then the BMW). But was it a safe car? Hell no.

 

Not a daily but with a 168,000 mile 302 roller and a AOD with 4:11's it gets 18mpg all day. It's a turd though. now runs 15.80's. I'm also looking at doing an old car as my daily when my Merc is used up.

 

I say don't overlook the 1960's six cylinder cars. Ford, GM, and Chrysler all built some bulletproof sixes, from smallish 170's all the way to big 250's, and most of the larger ones can be retrofitted into an earlier body with minimal mods and look stock. A Falcon, Fairlane, Chevy II, Chevelle, Dodge Dart or the Plymouth version, name escapes me right now, any of them would make a great commuter car as that is what they were designed for. I know most of the Falcons and Fairlanes used the same suspension as the Mustang and Maverick and even the later Granada, so disc brakes are a bolt on. Even rear discs can be sourced from later Explorers and Crown Vics to bolt on with just a little work. Power steering could be added easily, under dash AC gives you cold air, these cars will already have electric wipers and heater/defrosters. While adding a few newer parts won't be exactly 100% HAMB friendly, these parts will for the most part be hidden and unless you tell somebody they'll never know. Even with a stock six and 1:1 transmission you should still get 18-20 mpg with one. I had an OT 198? Granada, the fox body version, with a 250, C4 trans, 3:00 gears, it would knock down 18-19 mpg all week long, 21-23 mpg on long trips, with the AC on full blast.

 

Danny
I don't know that Blowby meant traditional as much as HAMB friendly. A truly trad car is work at best. granted a labor in love but work. I think that al lot of us own old cars and really don't have any other way that we get around.

Now when I have a car again I am going to fall into the category of someone who has access to a late model vehicle as was mentioned earlier, My bike was built in '78 originally which makes it late model so even when I do have a car to drive again I won't really have a HAMB friendly daily because I can always use my bike if my car breaks down.

 

I've considered a straight 6 but as mentioned in a recent thread the 235 Chev, for instance, doesn't get any better mileage than a small block. Why? Maybe porting, maybe works harder, dunno. Also don't know about the Ford and Mopars.

Took my heap to an old neighborhood reunion today, farthest I have ever driven it. It's no daily that's for sure. Had to let the flathead cool off twice, backbreaking ride, about as safe as a wet fart. It's a great around town beater though. Here's my wife patient wife waiting for it to cool off by the highway.

 

I have to ask what's in the jailbar?

 

od,
Ford SVO Turbo 2.3, 5 spd,

 

Cool.