I need some thoughts and advice. I have a '58 Buick with a 364 Nailhead. On Saturday, my harmonic balancer and crank pulley came off the crank shaft on my way home from a show. I lost power steering and the engine fan since the belts fell off. Luckily, I was 5 minutes from home. I've probably put about 500 miles on the car with it like this. After looking at the crank I realized that the shop that installed it nearly two years ago neglected to put the washer on, which is why it came off. I was speaking to a Nailhead expert and he said there's no way that it didn't ruin the crankshaft. He said driving it for a couple hundred miles with just the crank key holding it on would've wore down the end of the crank and that it will measure differently than further in. He said it also probably ruined the key insert on the balancer and that it will more than likely not sit tightly anymore. Could this possibly be the case? Would it have done this much damage. He said 100% and that the engine will have to be pulled to make it right. I just had a complete rebuild with a new crank installed two years ago and it makes me sick to think I'd have that much damage from a washer not being installed. Also, I spoke to the garage and one rep said that if i didn't supply them with the washer then I can't blame them. I just gave them what the engine rebuilder gave me and I would've figured if they knew their stuff they would realize the washer was missing. Thoughts?
Get another balancer, and a washer. Put it on, and drive. Plenty of engines had just a pressed on balancer, with no bolt.
Clean everything up and inspect closely, with a micrometer if you have/can get hold of one. It does't look "trashed" in the photos. If it's good, throw a Jiffy Sleeve on the dampener, and reinstall it, with a washer. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
I would have expected more damage than that. I bought a truck with the end of the crank broke off. The owner said they had left the washer off and when the balancer worked it's way off, it did some damage! Looks like you got lucky.
I doubt it damaged the crank. It's a snug press on fit...the only thing the washer and bolt do is keep it from working it's way off....I think the nailhead expert wanted to sound cool....I'm sure it's fine.
I agree with Gimpy. I know less than nothing about nailheads, but I ***ume we're looking at a removable timing cover in the pic. Probably would be a good idea to remove it so the nose of the crank can be inspected/measured. The seal would need to be replaced too, based on the appearance of the seal surface of the balancer. In the worst case you may have some taper at the outer end of the crank from the balancer wobbling. If so, that could be fixed with the loc***e product that's made for correcting loose fits. The bore of the balancer says you definitely need a new balancer. I see no reason to pull the engine to make this repair, but there's a definite reason to not let the same people work on it again. Anyone who put that bolt and lock washer on there and thought the balancer would stay on needs to be looking a plow mule in the *** rather than calling himself a mechanic or engine builder.
I lost a balancer on a 283 Chevy, no problem. IT CAME FROM THE FACTORY WITHOUT A BOLT EVEN! I drilled, tapped, installed a bolt, reused everything, nothing leaked afterwards. Maybe I got lucky, but I'd trying cleaning everything up and putting it back together. Then again, I don't pay shops to do stuff...
Thoughts- Easy to remove timing cover and measure crank shaft and check it for runout. All with it in the car. It's either ok or it's not. Now if its ok your good, if its not ok and the crank is off then you start thinking about yanking the engine. Easy to measure and check balancer. It's either ok or it's not. A Shop that doesn't know to notice that a wAsher was needed hummm. Kinda makes you wonder why they even installed the crank bolt since the head is smaller than the bore. This is where I start wondering what else they didn't understand and left ****ed up.
pull the cover use a dial indicator to measure the crank for any bending runout ( which I doubt since your key is still stuck in the crank ) the balancer snout took the brunt of the damage , install new balancer and washer it and drive it .
If Buick is like the Olds of those years, the balancer is a slip fit. If it was a slip fit, then yes, I could imagine that the crank and balancer are worn. The multiple belts kept it on all this time. Put the damper almost all the way on and see if it wobbles. If it does, the Buick guy is right. .
The Nailhead Balancer is a slip fit. The correct Torque on that bolt is also 200 plus Ft pds. If the Balancer has not been damaged it will be amazing good luck.
It doesn't look worn. I would test fit it. If it seemed OK I would run it. What can happen? Screw up the crank snout? If it's already screwed up, it's already screwed up. The 5 min. drive home without a water pump might have been something I wouldn't do.
It also appears from the offset weight on the balancer, that these motors were external balanced? If so, that offset weight severely aggravates any wearing of the crank and hub bore, due to running without the washer and 200 torque. That must be why the torque spec is so high. If it was a neutral balaced hub/damper, that size bolt torque would likely be 70-90 pounds, if that. .
I'd slip it back on and feel for wobble before making any decisions. If it feels loose, look further. If it slips back on fairly snugly, get a washer and torque it on and try it out on some short runs.
Bum Luck for sure. I'm one of those guys with more faith than most and would just put it back together with the correct Washer and run with it. I can see enough of the Drive Key that it don't appear to have the corners rolled over and the slot in the ballancer looks to be fine. A bent crankshaft,, I doubt it. The dark section on the end of stub is the Factory tapper to start the balancer on the crank, not a worn section or it would look the same insider the balancer. Forgive the Mechanic that should not have been working on a motor that's Older than he is and move on. I think you got very lucky. The Wizzard
Well if its ruined you can't hurt it any can you. I can tell things that I have seen happen in my time and some of them I have seen happen more than once. But that doesn't mean that it will happen 100% of the time in every situation. Before I was absolutely sure that the engine had to come out and get a new crank blah blah I would have to measure it. That said I would probably just put a balancer back on it with a washer and drive it. maybe take a look and see if the balancer was wiggling when it was spinning. Oh and find a new shop.
Look what is the cheapest option with virtually no down side...it's put it back on and give it a go! Here's what I would do: Get all of the anti-seize off of both parts If the key seems loose pull it out if not then leave it Get a robust washer maybe a machined part Make sure that the "big" washer doesn't make the bolt too short. If so get longer fastener Put lock-***e on the bore and crank snout. Learned from Dale Armstrong! I'm shocked that it didn't go thru the radiator...U B Very lucky! Note: what's the downside?
They didn't put the washer on because you didn't bring it? They don't have a phone? As if it was necessary for that. I hope you didn't give them just 7 pistons.
Put a new seal in and if the balancer fits loosely you can drill a hole in the groove between balancer and crank then tap it and put a bolt in it then do the same thing 180 degrees and that will hold it. I ran one on my 454 Chevy for years and it's still doing OK.
Great retort, Chrisp! Just what I was thinking... Too many years in the shop, ***embling customers' 'carry-ins' made Mike a skeptical boy. I generally had enough cores to cover stuff that was missing...Can't imagine how they didn't see that one! 'Mechanic' probably did a whole week of 265 Chevs with the press-on balancers.
i had a customer bring me an off topic toyota mr2 that had lost the balancer......it was a mess. they had no budget so i cleaned everything up, slathered it with green lock tight, and ***embled it. ran for years with no problem.
Like a lot have said ,I see no damage on the key or snout or pulley. Pull the bolt, was it torqued to 200? Get real damper washer because at that torque it will need to be tough. Put it together ,then try it. I had a press on sbc come off and take a piece of the snout off the end . I drilled and tapped it , in the truck ,slid it on and jb'd the end and bolted it. Ran it for 10 years before I sold it.
I had one come off of a Pontiac once. Since The washer was on it, the end of the crank was still firmly attached when it exited the engine bay.
I've done the same thing a lot of guys with blowers do that on the crank pulleys because of the hp required for the blower is more than the key can stand.
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