Technical 32 Model B pickup - Need Help

Hey HAMB guru's I am new to the forum and the world of Model B's. I was recently introduced to a 32 Model B pickup through a friend of mine. I knew he had purchased the truck in 61 with the intent to fix it up. Unfortunately it sat in pieces in a climate controlled garage after life got in the way and he just never had the time to get it put together. He is now 76 and recently took it to someone to have it put back together. Now that it is finished I want one of my own. But we need to get his going first.

I do not have any pictures of what the truck looked like before they put it back together. All I have at the moment is the finished product. I will upload more as I get them taken. It has the original motor and transmission in it. They did not rebuild either of them. My friend said he always went out and put a little oil in the cylinders and rotated the motor by hand every so often. The motor started right up after an oil change and a tune-up. It still starts up with ease when he wants to go for a drive. I am really amazed with this.

He had the guy put disc brakes on the front and modern radial tires and steel rims all of the way around on it because he felt he would be safer with these items. I think this combination of items has caused a few problems that he has asked me to help him with. Like I said, I am new to the Model B world, but I am mechanically inclined and I know how to fix cars. This is new to me and any help the forum can provide would be great. Here are the two biggest issues right now.

1. The steering is very hard and I mean so hard that I have to use two hands to turn the wheel and it will stay in that position unless I move it back to center. In my experience when you come out of a turn, it should not be that hard to move back to center. It should want to do that on its own. This one you physically have to rotate it back with two hands. This makes it very difficult to drive. He had a new steering box installed and it was to have new 22:1 gears. This was supposed to make it easier to turn. This is definitely not the case. It seams as if something is binding up somewhere but I cant find where. Any ideas?

2. The brakes are strange. Especially the parking brake. I thought when you moved the handle forward it released the parking brake and when you pulled it back it engaged it. This one seems exactly the opposite. I raised the front end and moved the handle forward to disengage the parking brake, or so i thought, but the front wheels were locked up tight. When I pulled the handle back towards the seat, they rotated freely. Is the parking brake system exactly the opposite in operation of what I am used to? View attachment 2985277 View attachment 2985278

I welcome any and all help on this. I would like for him to be able to drive it before he is really too old to be able to.

 

How wide are the front tires? HRP

 

Never mind the freaking tires....WTH are the "front disc brakes" running off of the e brake handle???

 

The steering was not like a modern car but definitely not as bad as you describe. The decision to put on disc brakes, radial tires and steel rims but keep the original engine says he may need a little guidance. I look forward to seeing some detailed pictures of the whole project. Did you do an introduction? How about something in your profile? A general location would be useful to recommend sources to have work done.

Charlie Stephens

 

I hit post before I ask about the disc brakes and the original engine and transmission,this truck sounds so confused. HRP

 

The tires are 235 70 15 on the front.

 

That's part of the problem,how wide are the rims? HRP

 

The rims are 15X7. Sorry about the introduction or lack there of Charlie. New to this forum stuff. I will update my profile asap.

 

As to the steering, I bought a 50 Chevy pick up that did the same thing. Scary to drive. I greased up the front end (straight axle) and it cured my problems.

 

I will have to make sure it is greased. I think it is but hey start out with the simple stuff first and then work to the more complex.

 

I agree. I will try to upload some more pics of the truck tomorrow. Just so everyone can see what I am dealing with.

 

What I meant was, I would be more concerned about this brake system first. I'm on my old backup PC and I can't see the pics....if they are even there with a good PC

The truck is not the only one confused here...

I was thinking maybe they ran some sort of remote master off of the remnants of the mechanical brake system, with a balance bar, then still using rear mech brakes with the orig e-brake? Man, I can't imagine how the master is hooked up, to be able to also use the ebrake handle to work the master....and then the handle works backwards???


Good grief.

.

 

Weird indeed! Is the e-brake handle connected to the master cylinder???

 

1. Steering: Jack up front end. Does it steer easily, now? While it's off the ground grease everything. Disconnect one end of the draglink from box to spindle. Does front end turn easily by hand? Does box rotate through span without bind? Any grease in the box? Put a smaller tire on the front, 235's are way too big.
This will get you started.
2. Brakes: Is the parking brake handle connected to the m/cyl, so it locks the brakes?

Post some pics!

 

On second thought, that truck is a death trap.
Your only recourse is to sell it to me, or trade me for a 36 sedan.

 

When I crawled under there for the first time, there were new brake lines everywhere coming off the master cylinder. But there is no balance bar or proportioning valve at all on the system that I could find. I do know that the Ebrake is attached to cables that go back to the rear drums. To me this looks like a completely open system between the front and rear brakes. Would the residual pressure from the rear drums being engaged bleed to the front calipers and lock them up? I may be way off base with this. Just trying to thing of everything.

 

Big fat tires like those are out of place and sure don't help steering. And as already said, jack it up experiment with movement, isolate the one. two or multiple things that are the problem and lube everything. A lot of joints dry while sitting for decades.

 

I can understand the truck being hard to steer wide tires and rims,my deuce pickup had 5 " rims and 5.50 bias ply tires,steering was simple and no problem. HRP

 

Thanks Hotrod A. If it was mine I may have considered it. I will go over there tonight and see what i can find by doing what you said. Thanks for giving me a starting point. I do agree the tires are really too big.

 

Was anyone able to see the photos? Let me know so I can see what I did wrong if anything.

 

OK. This is the kind of truck I want. That looks fantastic.

 

No it can't on a normal wheel cyliner rear brake system. That's because the wheel cylinder pistons should be completely retracted if the foot brake is returning as designed. Then by using the hand brake, you are spreading the shoes mechanically, and not pushing in on the wheel cylinder pistons



on the steering and tires; the 235-70 is just too big and too wide, and that size is normally mounted on a 6" wide rim.

So, if it has discs, those kits push the wheel outwards from where it should be, which affects/is called, "scrub radius". The whole point of keeping the tire centerline as Ford had it, is that it will steer easier. Push the wheel out, and it will be harder, but the wide tires with wrong offset wheels will make it harder yet.

saying the box is new, we can't know what type of box, and I don't recall a "new" 32 style box being made?

 

No photo's posted. HRP

 

I see the pic.



They look very far to the outside. Not good. Looks like some sort of late model pickup hubcaps, so I would guess the wheels are 6" between beads.

The best way to view the "offset" of the wheels as well as the disc kit moving the wheels out;

-Look under from the front.

- If you can eyeball an imaginary line though the center of the king pin that the wheel pivots on; that imaginary line on a stock 32 would intersect the ground underneath the skinny original tires. If that line is now hitting the ground inside of the tire contact point, it will steer harder, and also is more sensitive to shock from hitting potholes...transfering the shock to steering components and box, and steering wheel.

The problem with discs, and then trying to get wheels with more backspace to correct the scrub radius, is that the calipers might hit the new wheels with lots of backspace.

by the way, camera angles can lie, but the rear tires also seem to be out more than I would have thought. It could be wheel adapters to fit those newer wheels? or an illusion. That's not a problem, just thought I'd mention it as it might also tell us that these wheels, if all 4 are same, don't have enough backspace (for the front)

.

 

Pretty nice looking truck, actually. Wish I had it.
Jack it up, pull the front wheels, and post a pic of what's behind them. Way too much track, from the pic.

 

OK. Didnt have time to pull the wheels off but i did get some pics. Here is what did.
1. Jacked up the front.
2. Turned the steering wheel. Turned easily.
3. Greased all of the fittings. More smooth now and still turned easily.
4. Disconnected the drag link. The wheels turned by hand very easy.

So I think everyone was right that the tires are the problem for the steering issue. By the pictures below, you can see the wheel sits outside the imaginary line that F&J pointed out. My friend thinks if he puts the original wheels and tires back on that this will take care of any issues. I am not so sure with the disc brakes pushing the wheels out so far. I think he may have to find some aftermarket wheels that will bring them back in line.

So here is another question. How do go about measuring the offset that we will need if we decide to get new wheels? Any suggestions on type?


I also found out that they put a rebuilt steering box by EZ Steer on this truck. He still has the original that came with it. It has a 22:1 steering ratio rather than the 13:1 original box. I thought it was new. Sorry about that. Here is a pic of the rebuilt box. Is it normal for grease to come out of the end?

 

I hate to say it but I don't like the way this thread is going. I think the disc brakes and disc wheels with the original engine represent a very poor decision. I wonder if the quality of their work is the same as the quality of their decisions? On the other hand it is possible your friend is dictating what be done. As one of the other posters put it, the truck is confused. I wonder if the shop he has doing the work has sold him a bill of goods to line their pockets? My suggestion would be to keep your friend away from the shop that is working on his truck until things get sorted out. I look forward to a lot of close up detailed pictures.

Charlie Stephens

 

Do a search of the archives on EZ Steer. You probably won't like what you find. If the shop working on your friends truck recommended it that makes me question their expertise. I will say it again, stay away from that shop until this gets sorted out. In answer to your question is it normal for grease to come out the end, no, the steering uses gear lubricant, grease will cause problems. Of course use whatever the ez steer people recommend on their box, you don't want to void their warranty as I feel that you are going to need it.

Charlie Stephens

 

Thanks Charlie. I have to agree with you. Confused is the correct term here. He was part of the problem in making these decisions. But if the builder said he could do it with no problem, he trusted him and allowed him to proceed.

Just to reinforce your thoughts on the disc brakes and original engine. While the truck was in the air I played with the brakes. It seems the front calipers will not release completely and drag on the discs. Only when I engaged and disengaged the Ebrake would the caliper release the disc completely. These steering and brake problems are inter-related and we can't solve one without addressing the other.

He does not want to take it back to the build shop and that is why he has asked me to help him sort this out. I told him I am going to have to educate myself on the truck and it will take time. He said he wants it done right and is willing to spend the time and money necessary to make it that way. That is why I am turning to you guys to help educate me on this.

I will look up EZ Steer in the archives. Thanks for the info.