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Projects The bucket of ugly! A de-uglifying thread...

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by need louvers ?, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. Hackerbilt
    Joined: Aug 13, 2001
    Posts: 6,250

    Hackerbilt
    Member

    Yeah...the more I think about it the more I agree it isn't such a great idea.
    Workable...but unless you're running off a tiny Moon tank or something, it's not even necessary!
    Another idea best left on the drawing table perhaps.
    I'll stick to carrying my 2 gal jug of emergency juice in the trailer.
    You know...the one I've never needed to use anyway! :D
     
  2. Dick Stevens
    Joined: Aug 7, 2012
    Posts: 4,032

    Dick Stevens
    Member

    Fuel tank in a trailer sounds like a disaster waiting to happen, to me. I would be nervous every time I was driving and pulling it. Too many possibilities, in my mind, for various possible problems which all would give undesirable results!
     
    brad2v likes this.
  3. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 11,499

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    And when you leave it home then you will run out of gas :D
     
    brad2v likes this.
  4. Tim_with_a_T
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,656

    Tim_with_a_T
    Member

    I think the trailer tank COULD BE made safe, but maybe should not be. I think you would want a bladder in the tank to prevent tank burst/spill in the event you lost the trailer. Definitely a set of trailer safety chains with the fuel line longer than those chains, and probably a few other things I'm not thinking about.

    I, too, really like my auto darkening welding helmet. I have noticed a HUGE difference when I've had a chance to use a decent welder, and not my current setup with very limited power lol. But someday....

    Well, I got a couple small things done today/yesterday. I was trying to think about the best approach to drilling my backing plates and mounting the scoops. I originally had different ideas of making the vent screens rather large, and really hogging out the material under the brake scoops, but the more I looked at it, the more it looked a little too extreme. So, I took a more subtle approach.

    Right backing plate was rev. A, and left backing plate is what I ended up with.

    1446352338919.jpg

    Got the scoop fitting the backing plate reasonably well. Took about an hour of filing here and there, but overall fit decent to begin with.

    1446352396917.jpg

    Detail shot of holes under scoop:

    1446352468476.jpg

    And a top view. Still a fair amount of sanding ahead before this one is ready. But I like it. I made patterns AFTER completion - something unconventional - but it was easier for me to lay out my hole sizes and location on the backing plate, center punch them, drill them, then connect them than making a pattern. I made the pattern by just tracing the inside of the holes, then adding some material around the perimeter for a screen mesh pattern. This way I can both replicate the same features on the other backing plate and get the screens all the same. Pretty fun little project.

    1446352509041.jpg

    I really appreciate your words of encouragement. I have been putting in a lot more time on this project because I want it finished, and your encouragement / constructive criticism is welcomed and appreciated.
     
  5. Tim, you do some of the tidiest work, very cool (or cooling).
    Jeremy
     
    Tim_with_a_T likes this.
  6. Well, I appreciate you opinions. It gives me some more to think about, but it seems like I may be the only one who has had to struggle to get to 10 mpg out of my car. It got 4 mpg when I got it, and with a 10 gallon tank, it only gave me 30 miles between fill ups ( I never run anything under a 1/4 tank.). Now I'm getting 75 or so miles to a tank, and thinking that a vacuum advance dist. will probably be my next MPG project. I also have a 15 gallon fuel tank I wanna test fit in the bucket.





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    Tim_with_a_T likes this.
  7. Now that is our advantage over you guys, we live in a darn small country where there is towns and petrol stations reasonable close. I would not hesitate to drive my T the full length of NZ knowing I could organise the trip so that I didn't run out of fuel.
    I have towed a caravan up and down this country too and have never had issues with a wayward trailer breaking lose thankfully but do realise that mishaps can happen.
    How many miles do you wish to drive your T continuously as I know that one has some very vast open roads between States etc. and the extra fuel tank would come into it's own then.
     
    26 T Ford RPU likes this.
  8. I would think that a trailer would be best used to carry things you cant fit in your T on a trip, carry your gas in cans and use manual transfer.
    Move to NZ, our gallons are bigger so you can go further on each one.:rolleyes:;)
    Jeremy
     
    Sparked, Dick Stevens, brad2v and 3 others like this.
  9. Tim_with_a_T
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,656

    Tim_with_a_T
    Member

    Blownfuel,

    One thing that might help you out in addition to the vacuum advance unit is an AFR gauge. I got this cheap-o Edelbrock one that seems to work reasonably well. I used it to base tune the primary carb on my ghetto fab / redneck engine test stand, and it proved that I was running very rich! Much cleaner now.

    1446369862743.jpg

    Pretty simple to install, too. You just weld in an O2 bung to your header. I welded it underneath so it won't be too noticeable, and when I'm not tuning, I can just plug it off. I think I spent $125-$150 on the whole setup - AFR, supplied bung, extra bung and 2 plugs. Is it the best tuning aid out there? Nope. Is it a great tuning aid for the price? You bet.

    1446370034342.jpg

    My next project, which will either end up a complete disaster or total success, with nothing in between:

    1446370204854.jpg

    1446370276305.jpg

    1446370290593.jpg

    1446370310296.jpg
     
  10. Tim, I like your battery box idea. I've had something similar (but not as neat) floating in my head.
     
    Tim_with_a_T likes this.
  11. Hackerbilt
    Joined: Aug 13, 2001
    Posts: 6,250

    Hackerbilt
    Member

    4 MPG?!?! I was around 11 or 12 or a little better but I THINK I'm doing slightly more than that now.
    Got rid of the Holley fuel leaker and, in desperation for a couple more runs, went to an old Quad I had kicking around and it actually drives much nicer and cleaner...but power does seem down a little as well. I can live with that as I don't race the car at all and theres still lots of useable power for the road.

    That must be one hell of an engine you have up front Blownfuel!!! ;)

    Tim...really impressive work you're doing! Cool stuff!!!
    That high tech fuel gadget is interesting.
    Being the eternal cheapskate, I mean Hot Rodder, I'm thinking the same thing could be pulled from a parts car and maybe use an OHM gauge to do the tuning?
    You would just need to know the parameters for the sensor I guess. Bungs are available at parts stores like NAPA.
    I'm not up on this electronic stuff at all but it seems possible! LoL
    I can see that being an excellent tuning aid!
     
    Tim_with_a_T likes this.
  12. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,991

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    4 MPG , WOW , YOU've got something really wrong !! I've no idea what you"RE running for an engine/induction , but if this is a T , that's nuts !!My 388 stroker w/2x4 holley's on a tunnel ram w/3.55 gears gets 16 + at 70 mph cruising [about 3k RPM]
    dave
     
  13. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,991

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    I hope you're incorporating some means to lock the bat. in place , you don't want it bouncing around in that box ...
    dave
     
    Tim_with_a_T likes this.
  14. Hmmm.....sounds like it's time to re-post my favorite engine picture.....:D
    1446390596488.jpg 1446390641891.jpg

    The carbs are dual 750 cfm Holleys, they have been dyno tuned with a wide band O2, so their pretty much dead on. I did rebuild them recently, so I need to re-check the idle mixture one of these days, but there not eye watering rich or anything. I guess I forgot to mention, I wanna take the car on a Hot Rod Power Tour, before I get too old to do it! One of my good friends has done the last two, and I really wanna go with them so we have back up in case it rains (Robin could ride with them, I'll just have to tough it out to keep up!) My plan is to make the trailer big enough for a couple of suitcases and/or an easy up and a couple of chairs behind the coke cooler, and maybe a spare tire.
    Which brings up another issue, I'm a little concerned about taking a cross country trip with those steam roller sized rear tires (because if something happens, you can just pull into your local Pep Boys and grab another, right? ;) ). At a minimum, I would replace them before I left on the trip, and I thought about being silly and mounting a second set as the rolling stock on the trailer (but decided that would just be too goofy!). I'll probably pull them off for the trip, and mount up something smaller, maybe on my 16"x10" big window Halibrands. That way I could carry a reasonably sized spare, and maybe mount wheels with the same sized tires as on the front of the bucket. That way one commonly sized spare would fit between both vehicles, and AAA will be my back up.

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    AndersF and k1w1rodder like this.
  15. I've known people who put their slicks on the trailer (or, in one case, had them shipped to the venue!) to mount "reasonable" tires for the tour. Swap things around when you get there (for the show) and then reverse the process for the trip home.

    The good thing about the Power Tour is that you have lots of support around should anything happen.
     
  16. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,991

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Nice engine !! I still think you could do better than 4 mpg... A couple 6-71 guys I've spoken with claim around 10 -12 mpg ....what are you running for a gear ??
    dave
     
  17. missysdad1
    Joined: Dec 9, 2008
    Posts: 3,307

    missysdad1
    Member

    Suggestion: Instead of eating each other alive, why not make a positive contribution to the world of T-Buckets.

    There are lots of real bargain 'buckets on Craig's List...if they can be "saved" economically. Why not select a local example and then make suggestions how it can be "rescued".

    Potential buyers and sellers would both benefit from constructive criticism, and a lot more really pretty T Buckets would be put back on the street instead of dying of neglect in somebody's backyard because they were too ugly to merit a new home.

    Here's a couple of examples from my area:

    00707_eufoKtLgxSx_600x450.jpg 00T0T_8aXFKKVPvh3_300x300.jpg
     
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  18. RodStRace
    Joined: Dec 7, 2007
    Posts: 7,672

    RodStRace
    Member

    "Being the eternal cheapskate, I mean Hot Rodder, I'm thinking the same thing could be pulled from a parts car and maybe use an OHM gauge to do the tuning?"

    The standard O2 reading is voltage, 0 to 1 volt. Low V = lean, high V = rich.
    You could hook up a DVOM to read, but it moves very fast when operating properly, Oscilloscope fast!
    That's why the little box with LEDs is the way to go. It probably could be built, but you want something that is working properly from the start. Radio Shack probably doesn't have a kit or schematic to build one, and you want something that is right to start so you can concentrate on learning how it works and how adjustments affect the readings.

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,991

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Radio Shack is gone ..kaput ...out of business
    dave
     
    loudbang likes this.
  20. It seems that the biggest issue with most T's is that they were considered entry-level rods and were built to a price-point and questionable esthetics. The hand-made shell and eyebrows on the yellow '26-'27 are and example of the latter, while the spotty use of chrome is one for the former.

    Interesting question: Would there be a viable business for someone snatching up these abandoned rods and applying the Chip-Gary-George-etc. styling guidelines?
     
  21. daddio211
    Joined: Aug 26, 2008
    Posts: 6,012

    daddio211
    Member

    I don't see that as a money maker. What's a "high end" and "desirable" T bucket bring? Maybe $18-20K these days? Surely less than the sum of its parts. Of course there are exceptions.

    Buying a cheap and running T in need of deuglification is going to be in the $8-10K range, at least around here.

    Taking the ugly out with new and appropriate parts, professional services (body, paint, upholstery) re-engineering required pieces for aesthetics and safety would quickly exceed the top end of T bucket pricing.

    I had a buddy pick up a running driving and UGLY T several years ago with this intent. He paid $4000 for it and when he did the math he said "Screw it, I'll just drive it the way it is." He's made no changes, makes no excuses and drives the hell out of it. I think that's the attitude to have with these older ugly buckets. Kind of like that ugly stepkid, you just figure out how to love it while dealing with its BS. LOL
     
  22. daddio211
    Joined: Aug 26, 2008
    Posts: 6,012

    daddio211
    Member

    Besides, selling a T bucket is always difficult and time consuming.
     
  23. And that's why there are so many abandoned T's out there...

    (But: Can you imagine three guys - one to find 'em, one to build 'em, and one to peddle 'em - flooding the market with de-uglified, classic-styled cars? 42 clones of Gary's ride? :eek::D;))
     
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  24. steel rebel
    Joined: Jun 14, 2006
    Posts: 3,604

    steel rebel
    Member Emeritus

    Hold your tongue Gary.
     
    Tim_with_a_T likes this.
  25. Tim_with_a_T
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,656

    Tim_with_a_T
    Member


    I considered using an O2 sensor and a multi-meter to do just that, but I never found an article explaining how to filter out the erratic readings. You would need an oscilloscope or something, kinda along the lines of the info RodStRace posted.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2015
  26. Tim_with_a_T
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,656

    Tim_with_a_T
    Member


    2OLD2FAST / Dave,

    If everything goes according to plan, the top of the battery will butt up against the surface of the floorboard (wood), and I will have two small port holes I can cover with insulated metal plates under the carpet to access the terminals. I will install the battery by sliding it up underneath. There should be enough play in the box after bending to give the inside of the box some type of rubber bumpers around the perimeter of the battery. That's why I said it will either work out flawlessly or be a total disaster lol. It has to be close to perfect or it won't work. It will be a good exercise of my skill and patience. And quite possibly the scrap barrel!
     
  27. Tim_with_a_T
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,656

    Tim_with_a_T
    Member

    As far as fuel economy goes, I read quite a bit on the tbucketeers site of other T's comparable to your numbers, Blownfuel. It seems that what kills fuel economy in a T is the steam roller tires under inflated, the unnecessarily high rpm stall converter, the tunnel ram / blower setup, and the lack of vacuum advance. I think you have made good progress to get where you're at. When it was dyno tuned, was the mixture dialed in at cruise as well, or just idle and all out?

    One of the main articles I read that made me want to tune with a wide band was this one :

    http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/engines-drivetrain/0510ch-carburetor-tuning-gas-mileage/

    Warning! Off topic T bucket / HAMB material in the link above! But it has EXCELLENT information. I learned a lot from that. That fancy program they use is expensive, so my cheap-o Edelbrock meter, a vacuum gauge, a tach, and some way of tuning in the carbs will get you close. I even considered a scenario after I get the car running, that I could use my phone or a GoPro to record the readings of the vacuum gauge, tach, and wide band meter under load / while driving. Then after, I could graph ("data log") using Excel exactly what that program does for zero additional expense and using what I have laying around. You can even download an app on your phone measuring G force, so you really could do the whole package with stuff most hot rodders have laying around or could borrow.

    This is what I did internally to my tri power carbs after reading that article:

    1446405142056.jpg

    I modified the Rochester carbs to accept Holley screw in air bleeds, Holley jets, and I have an assortment of Rochester idle tubes I drilled various sizes. I'll try to get a picture of that stuff if anyone is interested later on.

    I may have posted that stuff before, and if I did and if it is boring, I apologize.
     
    brad2v, AndersF and daddio211 like this.
  28. Maybe my original post wasn't clear....it was 4 mpg before the rebuilds (fresh out of Storage), it's getting 10 mpg now. That's in the range most people report for similar setups. I still think a vacuum advance distributor is the next link in the chain. I have a Autometer A/F gauge, but haven't mounted it yet (cant decide where I want/should to drill the header. I actually have an OLD Heathkit tailpipe sniffer, but I have no idea how well it works (or if it works at all?)! Tim, I was there when it was dyno-tuned, but it was on the previous owners dime, and I had two of my own cars there, so I really don't remember.

    Kurt
     
    Tim_with_a_T likes this.
  29. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,991

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Nice work on your carb , I'll be looking forward to seeing how it dial'sin
    dave
     
  30. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,991

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Mallory guy told me maybe 15 yrs. ago that the vacuum adv. was worth "maybe" 10%
    dave
     

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