Projects The bucket of ugly! A de-uglifying thread...

Just remembered, my carbs also are not boost referenced. If you read enough on this, seems about 50% think it's necessary, 50% don't. I'm leaning towards not for the simple reason that I've got the blower 15% underdriven to allow the car to run on pump gas. Not seeing any boost unless I'm seriously in it. It wouldn't hurt for it to be a little fat in the cruise circuits, keeps the cylinder temps a little cooler, and therefore a little further away from detonation. If I remember right, timing is 12 degrees initial, and 34 degrees total, all in by 2400 to 2600 rpm (this is the part I'm a little fuzzy on....Damn CRS!). I agree, Dave, I doubt a vacuum advance will be worth more than 2 mpg, and 1 mpg is probably more realistic. I really doubt the car is ever gonna get better than 12mpg, and we haven't even discussed my left foot......I try to drive conservatively, but the TORQUE makes it hard!

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In 1 of my holley tuning books the author was really big on boost referencing , I'll dig that out tomorrow & see what he was referring to...Is it possible your PV's are coming open when not needed??
dave

 

Meant to mention also , w/my setup [tunnel-ram] at cruising RPM , I never get off the intermediate circuits , I know that some carbs have very rich idle/intermediate circuits , I leaned mine a bit , which really helped the MPG AND drivability..
dave

 

Well, I was mostly successful today. Still have some hammer / dolly work, and need to have someone weld it, but it turned out pretty decent. I'm happy with it.

















I'm gonna call it a night. Bent that thing up by beating it to death in my vise and over some blocks of wood lol. No need to hit the gym tonight.

 

Nice.

 

x2!

 

Looks good, Tim! Are those the 6 volt, 3 cell Red Tops?

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This is an Odyssey 12 V PC680 absorbed glass mat (AGM) battery. It's like the size of 2 MSD boxes side by side, which is why I chose it. At first, I didn't think it would be enough juice to turn over my 10.5:1 small block (because it sat for a couple years before I tried it and it was pretty weak), but after charging it up, it seems like it will do the trick. If not, I have a neat little stationary holder for my desk lol.

 

Hi Blownfuel.Would`nt boost referencing be more for blow through and not draw through?
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

 

Hi Leo, Not necessarily, if I understand it right, they redrill the connection to the backside of the power valve, thereby letting the boost pressure open it.

 

The carb is not under boost pressure unless it is being blown through.
When the boost is below it, it should function like a normal carb, just seeing a big increase in airflow when the blower is drawing in extra air to build boost.

 

Guys

Took my ugly roadster to a fire victim fund raiser car show Saturday at a local golf course (that wasn't affected by the fire). Actually only a couple of miles from what remains of my friends house where I took these photos. I usually only get positive remarks about my roadster. Most people that don't like it or something about it are too nice to say anything. While I was sitting behind the roadster an old kind grumpy sounding guy walked up. (I say old because he was older than me and I am 71). Anyway he looked around and finally said 'CUTE". After looking around some more he said I kinda like it but those exhaust pipes gotta go. I really don't like those. I figured it was pretty good timing after my posts last week. Anyway I just laughed it off as he walked away shaking his head.

Gary


At the top of the driveway was a beautiful three bedroom,split level, two car attached car garage house. With about a 20X20 redwood deck in front.

This was his four + car detached "man cave" garage/shop. Every tool needed for mechanic and wood work.

I had to pull the roadster in the neighbors driveway to get away from the tree cutters.

 

My parents house was burned down 10 years ago.
Well its really takes it all.
Edit. My parents was unharmed becouse they where not home when it started.

 

http://www.radioshack.com/

I'm not saying the company is in good shape, but there are still stores out there and they are synonymous with DIY electronics.

As far as finding 'ugly' Ts at a bargain, I've looked on and off for a while.
Not much out there that falls within the narrow hoped for area of complete, doesn't require replacing major parts and/or major modifications while still cheap.
Examples
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/cto/5254969782.html
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/cto/5271439894.html
https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/5295866018.html
https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/5267345523.html
probably the best, but 7500!
https://bakersfield.craigslist.org/cto/5227158766.html
and even more money
https://lasvegas.craigslist.org/cto/5218466643.html

I left out a few examples that were so ugly you would gag, or parts collections that were not the right parts and incomplete anyway.

 

What part of Radio Shack is dead did you not understand ? The remains of its assets were bought out and the name will be gone in short order. General Wireless bought them and they will be converted to sprint stores.
The link you posted is dead.

 

Gary,
Those fire pictures made me cringe. Gives us many things to be thankful for. Hope your friend can recover from his losses quickly.

RodStRace,

I clicked on those links. I think the only one that's tempting for me is the last one with the big block, but even then I would want to change too much to justify the price.

 

RS link works for me, and there's a store around the corner from me...used to work there back in the mid '70s as an Electronics Engineering student. The after-closing parties were more fun than I should be admitting to.

Bummer about the fire up there Gary, but good on you for helping out the neighbors with your not-so-ugly roadster.

RodStRace: Great find on Joe Gemsa's T!

 

No doubt...glad you and yours are safe.

More T stuff!

 

Actually I have a Bay Area friend who makes some $ buying and selling rods. A lot of them are T buckets. He does choose well. This one is a blown Cadillic powered Steel T built in the Late '50s or early '60s. Actually you probably know him he is a HAMBer Marcus Edell. Sorry this is the best photo of this car and him I have. He is really not quite that ugly and the T is bitchen.
Gary

 

Yeah, I've seen some of his stuff, on here and in print. That T is indeed very cool. Wild little car. Bunch of ugly ones for sale around here, but at not ugly prices.

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Question for you guys:

What size fasteners, and how many, are you using to hold your body to the frame? I think I asked this before, but can't find it.

 

Blue,

I agree with the theory, which is why I haven't done it to my car yet. But there are some who believe it should be done on any blown car. See pics below for an example (I know the first pic looks like it's going into the valve cover, but it's actually a 90 degree fitting into the intake. I would think the power valves will work correctly just as they are, but I've got a couple of expert friends (Corky Bell (wrote Supercharged and Maximum Boost) & Donnie Anderson (Performance Engineering, engine builder for Jack Chisenhall's Cool 200 Studebaker) I'm going to talk to about this the next time I'm in Texas. I also respect David Vizard's and Mert Littlefield's opinions, so I'll check Vizard's books and see if he has anything to say on the subject, and the blowers going up to Littlefield soon for a rebuild, so I'll ask him then. I'm hoping to get a majority opinion out of the four of them, but with my luck, they'll split 2 to 2! Between Mr. Littlefield and Corky, they probably have as much blower experience as anybody on this planet. If they disagree on it, I'm going to stick my fingers in my ears and yell "La la la la la la la la" as loud as I can. Then I'll go find someone with boost referenced carbs and beg for a ride.

Kurt

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Blue One, this is my understanding and opinion based on a good bit of reading and just being around blown engines. I'm certainly not a know it all and have to refresh my brain each time I set up a pair of holley's.

The power valves are held shut by vaccum and only open when vaccum drops to a preset level. This vaccum drop occurs under heavy throttle or transition to a heavy load. As vaccum drops and the valves open, additional richening of the fuel mixture is allowed to occur until the vaccum returns to a level above the power valves preset rating.

Problem with setting holley carbs over a blower like Blownfuel's is that the power valves will never see low vacuum levels. In return, the valves will not open as the engine experiences low vacuum (building boost) under heavy throttle. Since the power valves are not allowed to open (act like plugs) folks run a larger jet size than needed to make up for the nonexistent power valve richening. Problem is now the lean condition is avoided but have to live with an overly rich mixture the rest of the time.

Allowing the power valves to sense the transition to low vacuum under the blower restores their ability to do their job. The carb can now operate it's different cuircits as designed. Only the holley must be modified slightly to make this happen and it's pretty easy really (I think everyone on this forum has rebuilt carbs and has more than enough fab skill). Just a matter of blocking off the vacuum source channel to the back of the valve and giving it a new channel. I think I took pictures on the last pair I did if folks care to see but I don't want to deviate too much from this threads de-uglifying focus and into carbs.

 

901miken,

So why doesn't the blower sucking through carbs #under hard acceleration) provide the vacuum signal to open the power valves? Seems like being on the suction side, they would work as designed?

And as far as de-uglyfing goes, car show season is pretty much over here till Jan., I'm thinking about pulling the engine, repainting the frame rails and engine, getting the blower rebuilt (seals are bad), getting the bottom of the radiator re-soldered, and moving that d@mn horn under the car! Phew! Sounds like a lot of work,.when you add in I work and go to school full time!

Kurt

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Blownfuel, the vacuum is what keeps the valve closed. It is the loss/drop in vacuum that opens the valve. A blown engine like yours (constant suction) does not allow the carbs to experience the vacuum drop (reduced suction) needed to cause the valves to open.

 

Yes, but Marcus has taste, knows style, loves history.................and he has the TOUCH. Ever notice all his cars have the right STANCE? And not that crap overcambered modern stance.

 

Ahhh.....that does make more sense. May have to put a vacuum gauge on it as well and make a few "test" runs! ;-D

 

Sorry guys this isn't what I really call a T Bucket. T Modified maybe. Chip posted it on his Facebook page. I like it so much I thought that you would like to see it. I literarily wouldn't change a thing on it. I need one of those caps.
It really wasn't much less fuzzy on his page. I really need to learn how to repost a photo other than taking a picture of it with my phone. Next time when my daughter comes up I ask her how.
Gary

 

Gary, you can right click on a picture and save it to your computer.
Then you can post it from there, much easier. If you want to make it easy to find just save it to your desktop.
Later you can delete it or move it to a folder.

 

I used 6 3/8 bolts , 4 in the cockpit , 2 under the turtle deck...6" square imbedded plates where the bolts go thru , rubber isolaters above/below & thru frame mounts [cut down conveyor wheels]
dave