Projects The bucket of ugly! A de-uglifying thread...

Steel Rebel: The old Bo Jones modified, if I'm not mistaken; lookn' better than ever! It always looked real neat parked with his matching "T" sedan.

 

Fasteners?
Mine had 4 3/8 bolts as well.
Now it has.... 16 3/8 G-8 bolts!
No...it absolutely doesn't NEED that many...but due to the way I tied a new steel structure around the seat sides and added 1 x 2 vertical seat back supports using what used to be mounting points for an internal bolt in roll bar...I now have that many.
There are NO creaks in this car when you climb in and out or lean back to stretch!

Believe it or not...there will be a few more around the firewall area after this winter when I add a metal covering to the firewall face.
That will be tied into the frame as well.
The ones around the seat area are absolute overkill (The holes were there...I used them! LOL) but the couple I will add up front are, in my mind, necessary for good structural support in that area.

 

More on the Bo Jones modified: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/the-bo-jones-modified.261458/

 

You can buy the modified built as a tribute to the Bo Jones modified. Only $50,000
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/984809/

 

OH sh*T! Me thinks I'm headed in the right direction. With my own personal touches, of course. Look at those bones!

 

Or, you can simply right click on the picture and copy and paste image where you want to post it.

 

So, now........ I'm a lurker. Reading comments about who's opinion or ego is better than the others and hoping for a bit of knowledge. I'll be back when someone cleans the shovel.

 

I think that the shovel has for the most part been cleaned.
The only one who could really calm the groupies down would be Chip, I'm afraid he has left the building
So stay around Fred, we missed you when you were gone.

 

For sure!

 

Hope this in on topic. One area I have started to focus on recently is the best blend of function and traditional style for front shocks and mounts on our T's.

No matter who builds or de-uglifies a T, the shocks are right out front and eithor nicely done, distracting, or were an afterthought.

I will be redoing mine and hope to genorate some ideas and pictures of well done examples.

If it matters I am using a spring over axle but still using a front perch mount.

Below is one I saw a picture of and liked the idea of, but might have tried to mount them lower, but there are others that are nice ideas too.

 

I'm kind of afraid to screw with mine, it has friction shocks AND tube shocks on it. I suspect it probably had the friction shocks first, and the tube shocks were added later due to some perceived deficiency with the friction shocks. One of these days I'll get the car over to Chips and let him look at them (the friction shocks), and see what he thinks about them. I believe the only problem with them is a lack of preload, as they don't have the preload springs like his do. The shocks on that car aren't bad, but I don't like the angled mounting. I forget the equation, but I know it takes a lot of "efficiency" away when their angled.

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I have used the P & J short chrome shocks on the front of mine and used a combined shock headlight mounts to make it look reasonable.

 

All, thanks for the body fastener info from last week. Sounds like I'm on the right track.

I've posted before, but what I did for shock mounts was similar to whiplash- I'm using the same mount for my headlights as my shocks. I think anytime you can do that on a T, you come out ahead. One less thing to worry if you have space for or not. My mounts are nothing more than a modern interpretation of F1 shock mounts with a cut down Model A or similar headlight bar from SoCal Speed Shop. You can find both of those as originals very cheap if you shop around, and just cut them down/modify to fit your application. I will be using the original goodies on the next build... because the HAMB has corrupted me. But for this project, I'm happy with how it came out.

 

I'm left feeling a little confused by your pictures Tim. It looks like your shocks mounted length is fully compressed ?

I did something similar on my shock-headlight mounts, but built them myself.
Larry.

 

Blue One,

They are indeed fully compressed in the photo. I have no good pictures of the setup otherwise. I removed all leaf springs except the main leaf and compressed the suspension to ensure panhard bar clearance while the wheels are turning. Previously, I had interference between the tie rod and panhard bar, so I mocked it up this way to make sure I'd fixed that. Like I said, I have no better pictures

 

I used CCR's set up. I'll try to find pics tomorrow. I was very satisfied with the look and function and plan on using them on my new build.

 

Tim, love the headlights.
Jeremy

 

Thanks for all the shock mounting ideas. Several of the examples mount the lower end of the shock to the radius rods and not on the axle itself. Am I able to do this but on my hairpins instead?

 

Ok so not the best pic but thats how mine are mounted with a connecting brace between the hairpin bars

 

Regarding the shock mounts: it's funny to see how similar our setups are, and how different each of our cars are compared to each other.



Well, I have been scheming once again on how to get a manual trans in my T. I have determined that this is something I'm unwilling to give up on, so if I end up in a nut house, you'll know at least one reason why

This is my Speedway brake pedal bracket. I'm thinking I can squeeze two pedals in there without too much trouble. The square represents the inside of the frame rail, and each clevis has just enough room to be tied to its intended pedal.



I was at a friend's shop awhile back, and he gave me a hacked up Z bar to play with. This is where my head started hurting previously, and I gave up on the idea...



But, being the stubborn ---- that I am, I hacked it to pieces and welded it back together to fit what I needed.



Frame Z bar bracket. I realized too late in the process that it resembles a penis... oh well, I guess I know the gender of my car now.





I'll bolt it to the frame like this:



And the modified Z bar fits now...



Top view of what I'm trying to accomplish. I still need to make Z bar lever, clutch pedal, and tie rods to get it all working together, but it's a start.
Linkage rod will go from under clutch pedal, pulling Z bar lever, and in effect pushing clutch fork. I think it will work. If not, you might check the nut house for new admits as mentioned earlier.

 

Looks good. I have a manual trans in my to and have same problems to solve.

 

Tim,

What clutch are you planning on running? The only possible problem I see with your setup is the arms on the z bar are goi g to be fairly close together, and a high pedal pressure clutch will probably tear it apart. I had this problem on my Chevy II, it had a Centerforce dual friction clutch in it (which they claim is a low pedal pressure clutch, but don't believe it. It may be low pedal pressure for the amount of clamping force it has, but it isn't exactly low!). It destroyed three stock z bars (the arms would tear loose from the cross bar). The first time, I thought the welds were suspect, but I paid more attention the second and third times,.and realized the welds were fine, it was the metal of the cross bar that actually fatigued an failed. I re-enforced the z bar and it held.up longer than the stock ones did. Now, I run Zoom's perfection clutches, and they've work real good for me.
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Blownfuel,
I haven't selected a clutch setup yet, so your comments have been quite helpful! Regarding the Z bar / cross shaft, I am going to share the same arm on the Z bar instead of using 2 arms - on one side of the arm will be the rod coming from the pedal, and on the other side of the arm will be the rod going to the clutch fork. As mentioned earlier, I think it will work...

 

Like this:

 

There have been a few ugly ways to get 3 pedals in a T-bucket (and some not-so-ugly, like those shown in the above posts). One company adds foot room by putting a big bulge in the side of the body. Some folks have put the gas pedal on the transmission hump. There's just not a lot of room for three pedals and we can't make our feet any smaller, regardless of pedal placement.

This may be a dumb idea, but I've been kicking around putting a hand clutch on the shifter. That would eliminate one of the pedals.

You could place your palm on the shift ball to shift while pulling up on a t-handle with your fingers to work the clutch.

It would have to be power assisted, like those soft, touchy power brakes that were on some of the luxury cars of the '60's and '70's. They didn't take hardly any effort at all to push the brake pedal. Maybe the same idea could be used for a clutch.

A simple cable to a power booster would allow it to be placed nearly anywhere out of sight. Then a tube between the booster and the hydraulic clutch would make that packaging just as easy.

The booster could be hidden just about anywhere, such as in the bed or beside a frame rail.

Any reason why this wouldn't work? Can you foresee any problems or disadvantages with it?

 

Tim , I think you're over-complicating your clutch linkage a bit, you don't need a z-bar , as you've alreaddy shown , you just need a swing arm attached to the bell housing or the side of the block , a simple swing arm , also remember that the clutch fork [where the linkage presses] travels in an arc [about 3/4"] so the further forward the pivot point is , the better... there are straight clutch forks available that may help w/this problem... you'll probably have to use a heim on the pushrod to be able to keep alignment w/ the clutch fork. I really wish I could post pics of my setup , most folks when they see it's a manual trans look under the car & say ,,Gee , that was simple LOL
dave

 

Tim,

Yes, I think that would work. I like the idea of the arms completely encircling the rod (this probably would have solved my issue as well), much more strength that way!

Wsdad,

Yeah, that could work, but it seems like a lot of extra work. When you first sugested it, the first thing I thought of was the low/high range shift knobs on a semi shifter. Back in the late 60's, Volkswagon's had what they called an automatic clutch. As soon as you touched (well, put a little pressue on) the shifter, it electrically disengaged the clutch, allowing you to shift to the next gear. Took some getting used to, but worked ok. Most people didn't like it, but I think that was mostly because it's damn near impossible to break the bad habit of resting your hand on the shifter while driving. When you did this in the VW, it disengaged the clutch, free revving the engine. Not really good when your accelerating up an on ramp or something! This idea would probably take much less space than what you described, and replacing the touchy shifter with a regular shifter w/ one of those shift knobs with the built in momentary switch for a line lock or nitrous would be less inconvenient of an actuation source.

2OLD2FAST,

I'm intrigued by your description, but I can't quite picture it. I'm thinking an arm bolted horizontally (or vertically) to the block, with both the clutch pedal and clutch actuation arms attached to it? Am I close?

You guys might also look at the clutch cans and candle sticks the early front engine dragsters and funny cars used for inspiration. I'll see if I can find a picture.

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If you look at Tim's last drawings , cut the z-bar cross tube down to about an inch long , put a bushing in the tube , 1/2" shouldered stud in the bellhousing or block for a pivot point , actuation rods run as shown.. hope this helps ....
dave

 

Yeah, that helped. I think I got it now. Harder than I thought to find an pic of an old fuel clutch can set up, but these should get anybody unfamiliar with them a pretty good idea. The first two show how the bell housing has a cross shaft running through the bottom of the bell housing (Don't go to Broward's site looking to buy one, the prices will give you a heart attack! I've built complete SBC's for less than one of these cans (but when your pushing 2500 - 3500 hp through a clutch, it's money well spent!). I've seen used, out of cert / out of style stuff sell in the $500 range, but I'm thinking you could possibly weld a couple pieces of pipe in the bottom of an old Lakewood scatter shield and fabricate the rest, or find an OEM setup that works the same way and adapt it. Flat heads used a similar setup, and I believe some trucks did as well). The third pic shows the throw out bearing yoke arrangement inside the can (but that's an awful small can!). The fourth picture shows how the dragster and funny car guys just attach a clutch pedal directly to the cross shaft and eliminate the rest of the linkage altogether. The length of the clutch pedal arm gives you your mechanical advantage over the clutch. This was the only pic I could find of a clutch pedal installed, and it's kinda cluttered. Ignore the stuff above the pedal pad, that's all steering. The arm running down to the bottom of the bell housing (under the frame rail) is the clutch pedal arm. My thought is you extend the cross shaft all the way over to a pivot ball mounted on the frame rail and move the clutch pedal closer to the left side of the body.

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Don't remember if anyone's ever posted this one here before (I apologize if it has been), but I'm kinda liking it! Just saw it over on the 60's style post.
Does anybody know any other details (who, what, when, where, what magazine)? Looks like maybe an earlier T (fiberglass) body?

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