Appears to be the exact same thing. I wonder who made them? It;'s upside down for my use. I don't have any Winfield carburetors and am planning to make adapters to use Holley glass bowl carbs.
my thinking is I'd the Mercedes Diesel will work, the Perkins should too, and if the rotating assemble is a little heavy, I can run a smaller flywheel. As long as the total weight of the rotating assembly is the same, stout and strong pistons shouldn't hurt. And a fairly strong rotation assembly would over come a tall first and taller rear end gears.
Reciprocating weight (upper end of rods, pistons and pins)-adds to rod stress, and vibration, but does nothing to make up for lack of rotating weight (flywheel and crank). Also, the ''bowl'' in some diesel piston heads is there to disperse the injector spray--which is aimed right into the bowl. It wouldn't add any turbulence with the air/fuel mixture in a gas engine, except to concentrate some of the existing mixture in the cylinder into the bowl--where it would do little good--- when the piston came up on the compression stroke Herb
Regarding stress, if it works 500k km trouble free driving in a tractor and a combine at WOT with a much higher CR, some weekend driving in a ligth car should't hurt much. The relief aids to bump the compression and give a better mix, by means of higher velosity. Because most Diesel I know run a flat head, underside that is' some Pistons goes very close to the deck. Some brands reference to the piston relic/cup as a velosity chamber. But I don't know if it works with gas as well as it does with a fuel under high pressure. I would think it should, and help the gas stay moving until detonation. Since most older tractor Diesel and Perkins engines has a long strong engine, for more torque and low end grunt, it should be optimal for this kind of build. So I would say that the rigth combo of pistons and crank could result in a piston going almost to the top of the sleeve and defenetly result in massive compression.
I've been looking at the Fordson Major petrol engine pistons and con rods. 3 undersize of big end bearing should fit well to the ford "C" crank. Anybody ever played around with a Fordson E27 petrol 3main crank?it seems to be a stroke version of the banger crank as we know them.
Fordson Es aren't plentiful here but there were lot built over there. I don't know much about the F and N models here. Herb, how do you figure out how much weight needs to be added to counter balance the Chevy crank? Is it the total weight of pistons, pins, rings, and rods or a portion of that?
Six-- From what I understand, in theory,for an inline engine, the weight should be everything from the middle of the rod, up. In practice, it is impossible to use this much weight, as there just isn't enough room. This is the reason that some modern fours have a separate counterweighted shaft. Make the counterweights as large as you can, consistent with getting them to clear inside. Any amount is beneficial, especially to the main bearings. I make mine from 1'' plate, then turn the outside after it is welded. Straightening and Balancing is mandatory after this. Herb
This piston discussion seem to be still going on. I have not found an MB 230/4 engine to pick up the pistons. Mac, did you picked up that MB for pistons in your scrap yard? you mentioned of such three years ago on this thread? Volvobrynk, have you looked for MB pistons from Denmark?
So far I've not been able to get my hands on the Pistons, without buying full mill or full car. But I keep looking.
Thanks Herd. My friend is looking for his "extra set" of weights. At the least I'll be able to copy them. I'm trying to get him here on this thread. He has experience and information about these engines as well as parts. I have another friend with a NOS '28 head. I think he told me that it was not fully machined.
Here is a chart I made using data from this thread (mostly) about rod and piston choices for early Chevy 4 cylinder engines. It shows how far below the deck the top of the piston. These are basic measurements and should be checked with the actual parts.
For what it is worth, I would NEVER think of using a diesel piston. The idea is to keep the reciprocating weight as low as possible. Herb
I see, the fordson major E1 199 ci petrol should be a better match they are 3.74 bore and 4.52 stroke. Still needs to find the measurement for the full length. Its the same piston for the Thames trader six truck engine. The con rod is 1 1/3 inch in the small end. And 2 inch in the big end. And third under size is in the ball park of the Fordson E27 crank and the Ford C. And the Fordson major E27 Is 4.125 bore and 5 stroke.
Over here we have several piston manufacturers. Is this not the case in the EU? Any diesel piston I ever saw was really heavy and had a giant wrist pin that weighed a ton. 1.333 is a very large pin size
Yes and no, there are some, like Mahle. But they are rare, and custom made Pistons cost a lot!!! This ain't for a Diesel, It's a petrol tractor. Yes they are big on Diesel because some run 16-18 to 1 in compression. These are big, but they are hollow. Over here the crown highed of a modern European Pistons is very small compared to those of the 28 Chevy. And for anything but racing, I would believe that a OEM piston from a newer engine should be good enough.
I have not looked at a lot of diesel engines. A friend of mine had buses with 8-71 Detroits in them. The pins on that thing were solid. I'm just not sure how you are going to make up the difference in pin diameter and the size of the rod small end. On my Packard I wanted to use .990 pins that fit a BBC engine. The Packard rods were .9804. So I honed them to fit the pins. And pistons. But that was only .0096 coming out.
Depending on the length of the rod and the crown hight I would run the full rod and a second under bearing. They are pretty close to the size if journal of the crank.
Not necessarily related to this topic at all, but I just had to spread this. This is what early hot rodding was in the NORTH! Picture taken in Finland around 1925-26.
What about using Snyders or AERs Model A rod made to accept the modern chevy 283 piston. Rod length is then 7.570. And smal end is already modern size. Is the big end size the same on the chevy and the ford?
Mine uses model A rods. The big end was modified for the Chevy crank, but I don't know what that entailed. I just put the cam in the engine. I do not see any markings on the timing gears to indicate where it should go. In the past I would bring the #1 piston to TDC and install the cam so that the intake and exhaust were open the same amount. Split overlap on exhaust stroke. The Chevy has no or very little overlap. So I did the best guess I could and slipped it in. Any advice?
Split the overlap Rich. The stock cam isn't much good---Get it ground to Ford B for a road car, But if you do this you will have to use Ford B after market adjustable tappets, ream the block to fit, and make adjuster screws with spherical concave heads to accommodate the pushrods. Herb
Thanks. This is a reground cam. from around 48-50. Still not much overlap. And a really small base circle.
The small base circle is why they can get away with the small diameter, radiused contact area on the bottom of the tappet' Or maybe it is the other way around. Anyway, it severely limits what you can do in regards to improving valve timing. The old guys it is said, used to switch to a cam from the 224 engine (F FA FB) but now days most all of them have the lobes wore off. You also lose the center drive to the distributer if you are using a '25-'28 block as the cam has no gear teeth cut in it. The Ford guys have things too darn easy!! Herb
Thanks guys we are listening. Who does or could make a new Chevy cam? Is there another blank that could work? Is there an early overhead V8 or L4 head that could be made to fit the Dodge? Exactly which Dodge is the good one?
The good Dodge is the '27-'28 "Fast Four" because it has more bearings and intake ports than the '15-'27 four. But they were only made for a few months before being dropped in favor of the three flavors of six Dodge started building. They're not super easy to find. Roof built an overhead conversion for the earlier Dodge four, but I'm only aware of two that survive. Pete "Pedro" Hendrickson of the Montana Dodge Boys has one, and here's the other: '27 Dodge roadster with Roof head and five-speed trans.
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