Hot Rods Quick Change, Quickchange

Blackout,
When you say, "will not fit in the early housing," does that mean the V8 carrier?

 

Yessir. The 3/4 ton 12 spline as well as the 31 spline drop in replacement for the 3/4 ton ford carrier will NOT interchange with the smaller v8 carrier that would come stock in an early banjo rear as a " drop in" swap. Not saying you couldn't do it without a bunch of machining, but I'm on the warpath, hunt for a true 28 spline drop in , no mods needed for the early v8 banjo open differential. For use with the halibrand 201, rodsville, or early banjo with modified axles and axle flanges. Have some parts on the way. Will update as soon as I get em.

 

I hope you find that elusive V8 gear.
I am more interested in a 28 spline side gear that will fit the 3/4 ton carrier. For most hot rods a 28 spline axle would be sufficient in a Champ size Quickchange. If guy was on a budget, he may be able to find a 3/4 ton carrier, upgrade it with 28 spline side gears and get two readily available junkyard axles.

 

If converting a ford 9" from 28 to 31 is a matter of switching the side gears, ( and releaving for the bigger axle), that would make one think the 28 spline and 31 spine share the same machined diameter. Waiting for " blackout" to get his 28 spline side gears in that he ordered, wondering if they will fit in the 3/4 ton F2 carrier.

 

On the four I measured: 28 spline side [16 tooth] gears locating dia. measure 1.745/1.747..Dia of face is 2.930.., over the teeth is 3.295..I believe that if you trim the 28/31 side gears close to the 2.930 dia. of the face [as simple as a belt sander like in pic of post #179 by B'duece] it will fit in a banjo [pass] rear carrier 1938 or so up..The difference of the the dia. of the 28 and 31 splines was/is about .110 more for the 31 so was not [I don't think] necessary for any other change in gears, I dug for an hour and couldn't find any 31 spline gears..Gremlins.. Just a note, 28 spline axles can be made into 31's when shortened as long as they can be turned to 1.335/1.340 dia..

 

I misunderstood I thought you were talking about the 3/4 ton carrier as that is what I used with no problems and yes I have used 28 spline as well as 31 in the 3/4 ton carrier it's not near as strong as most of the 28 spline units only had 2 spider gears not 4

 

Did you mean, 31 spline axles can be turned into 28 spline?

 

QCE. you might be getting the 28 s gear 12-21-15. just picked up a nice 201 yesterday. no damage. a very early case. has the large square protruding on each side of the change gear housing. also has the very early cover. Hal. name top and bottom. may have come out of a 50's stock car racer. carrier side was locked up with what i think was 50 Merc side gears welded in. not F100 or 28 splines.

 

No, 28 into 31...Depending how much the axle will be shortened, Any 28 big bearing can be made into a 31 if you shorten it enough.... Not all, but some 28 big bearing axles when shortened [4-5"] can have enough material to be turned to the dia. for re-spline to 31 as they aren't turned much beyond the splines and taper up real quick to the 1.500 dia. required at the bearing which is the same bearing dia. as 31 big bearing..They are probably in the earliest big bearing rears, late 50's early 60's..The later 28 big bearing are too thin for too long to get an axle of some length...The couple I have are 5x4-1/2 bc so from pass car...On a note: Any shortened and re spline axle is not as strong as depth of hardness diminishes down the length of the axle and with good traction [or bad as in wheel hop] they will break at the splines..Prudence and just cruising around is usually ok..

 

I like the look of the truck bells. built this 301 for a 6 carb Caddilac rod I'm going to build. got this far and I didn't want the A spring into the trunk. Sold it. It went to Australia. went to Australia.

 

This is the 301 I now have for my 6 carb Caddilac rod. 4 rib Winters bells. Cleanest set up of all. Now going to use coil-overs. Don't buy 4 rib bells used. They are almost always bent.

 

I sold 3 sets of H852A side plates because I had no use for them but I did use a 4th pair on a supermodified I am building because thats the way most supers were done in California before the open tube rears took over. done in California before the open tube rears took over.

 

The only trouble with the large side bells is they are way too big in m opinion under a 32-34 Ford. 40 axle tubes look much better.

 

Ok, makes good sense. Thanks for the follow up.

 

Here is a reverse tip. How to lock up a V-8 quickchange. Use a 9" 28 spline mini spool. Cost under $20.00. Very little machining to drop in. I have one in my 39 Hudson dirt car. Had Moser re-spline the Ford pick up truck axles. This is my own custom built Quickchange. The black rear is not locked. It's in my 33 Willys. I built 5. Sold the mold, fixture etc. to someone in AZ.

 

Yes, Brizio uses them often with high hp engines. They do diminish the size somewhat. Pete builds whatever the customer wants or has possession of at the time. The 8 rib bells belong in race cars in my opinion but again if the price is right many people install them.

Here is one going together at Roy's with the 4 rib side bells. I have seen the finished car and it looks perfect under the Deuce.




I still prefer the 40 axle tubes with the Winters or Halibrand as it is the way I built them in the 60's.


Here the Champ with 40 axle tubes and CAE side plates under my 33 roadster. Using the rear mounted tank almost hides the unit but I like the look. Do you have any of these CAE side plates in inventory? Bruce has one but I have never seen another one.

 

Great tread. I'm buying a used champ. Sure I'll have lots of questions.

 

Lynn
That looks good with those adapters, hell fer stout I bet.
If that was under my car, I'd call it "big sexy".
Did I say that!

 

I have a frankland and Lynn racing center, and a set of 3/4 ton bells and tubes- do I need to run the factory open center or what lockers would fit?

 

Joel,
With either the Frankland or Lynn, you can use virtually any of the currently available differentials. There are several styles to choose from. If you have a unwelded open center, it can be modified to use 31 spline axles. the possibilities are (almost) endless.
Are your bells alloy or iron?
We love pictures. Hint, hint.

 

Just another out in left field question. With the Franklin or Winters case; 3 3/4 wide; will the Winters parts SR2493 champ bell adapter(adapts to 10bolt for EF axle tubes) along with their locker SR2419 work together? I am suspecting the locker and adapters from Winters are going to be over a grand together.

 

Yes, that combination will work. You are right abut the price. The side plates are about $300 ea. and the differential is close to a grand. If you saw my post for tech week about the Halibrand/Winters hybrid I show how to make adaptors to use a conventional differential instead of the special Winters unit.
I just finished doing the same thing using a Winters center and a Gold Track differential. The customer supplied the diff and side plates. I made the adaptors and machined the Gold Track.

 

Here is some more photos for comparison.


Early 301/CAE with 40 axle tubes.


Late Halibrand with new side adapters. Very popular in the 80's-90's under Deuces and Model 40's. I would like to find some of these adapters.


DPI machined for 301 with Halibrand side plates.


3/4 ton differential with 12 spline side gears. Stock


Halibrand under a Deuce RPU. Looks fine to me.

 

How bout some history? Were the 3/4 ton QC's used from the "beginning"? I know I've seen them under a lot of '60's and '70's circle track race cars.

 

A Champ under a Deuce sedan without the gas tank.


Scott added the Big Champ under his sedan for the look he wanted. The EF axle tubes disappear when painted black. The tank will hide much of the bulkiness. The Winter V8 requires no notching of the tank.

 

'39-'52 Ford F2 truck 3/4 ton. Went under the "Timken" name. I believe Studebaker and Willys pickup maybe too??

 

I sent a PM to "396skip", he has a large old school salvage yard, and stated they have at least 7 of those ford F2 trucks with those rear ends in them. Shipping would kill me, but someone closer might look into what he has.

 

Okay, I got the 28 spline side gear from Frames. It is a drop in my 3/4 ton original differential. Now to find out if they are available individually. Blackout, did you get your kit?
This can't be this hard. Just need a guy with the right attitude to check some inventory.

 

Yes I got mine. 28 spline drop in to a 3/4 ton carrier. Not so to the smaller 39-48 differentials without extensive machining.
So these Will NOT fit as a drop in to a 201 style ear ly halibrand using a stock open diff. Will DROP IN to a 3/4 ton open diff. I will follow up with a part # later. So for the 3/4 ton carriers there is an off the shelf 31 and 28 spline side gear conversion. Thanks again QCE for the suggestion and Frames as well. And you too Big duece. Now for the elusive small carrier 28 spline drop in. I know your out there!!!!!

 

Blackout,
Did you buy that as a kit with a cross shaft and spiders? If so, does the shaft work in the 3/4 ton carrier? Is it a 2 spider or 4 spider?