Technical Difference in Primers

I agree with with that. I get more shops calling me to match a color because someone bought some stuff from a online supplier, and the painter refuses to use. even if there is better out there it's best to use what the painter is comfortable with.
Now there are a lot of people who want to do their selves and that's the people who get screwed over, going into most paint store. So hopefully I can shed light on the subject so less people get screwed over.

 

Not to alter the direction of this thread (and this thread is top notch).
Ever see a HOK display at a show? The little "car body" paint samples, the salesmen, the brochures, the display and on and on?
Then the magazine ads, etc..... You know where I'm going.
Overhead must add a substantial amount to the product cost.

But then we'd be starting a thread on business and that's not what this is.

Back to valuable info on primers.

 

Guru,
I'm using Prep and Etch after molasses and blasting to stop flash. I was hoping to paint batches of parts with DP90LF. I was wondering if the same applies in regards to the Ospho.
Do I need to remove the patina the Prep and Etch has left before I paint epoxy?
If so, is there something I can wipe the parts down with just prior to painting?
Thanks for the great thread!

 

In the same boat as Jerseyboy. I get that once epoxy primer is on, you are in a much better position because the metal is sealed.
But for us DIY, "one panel at a time" guys, there is a gap in time between the sanded clean metal time and the time when the epoxy is shot.
If prep and etch or ospho is used to protect the metal, does the panel need to be sanded to bare clean metal again when the epoxy is applied?
If that is the case, would a rattle can primer work in the interim ( sand it off to bare metal) or can you recommend a product?

 

Greetings paint guru..do you have a retailer for your products in the southern newjersey region?...it would be outstanding to have a guru to supply advice and recommendations ....and I would not try to get into a pissing match with you to prove your wrong!!

 

Hello from Texas . Mr. Guru I have a question. I'm doing a big project that I'm painting in sections as I go . I'm in the process of doing the sleeper now . I'm painting with a turbo gun I love it for color but no so much for primer . I coated the stripped body with epoxy primer , then covered with 3 coats of surface primer after doing minor body work . Block sanding today and I got into some plastic and epoxy . Will be top coating with single stage paint in color . In this spot should I patch with more primer before I paint or can I paint as is . Love this site and thanks for the help . Paint is PPG . Will never do another project with rivets , 256 in sleet alone , not fun to sand . Blue

 

Are you planning on applying a sealer before top coating?

 

Wasn't going to use a sealer that you buy . I learned to use color thinned for a sealer . But that was in the old days when we made pigment out of ground dirt . LOL really I don't know much about this new paint . Blue

 

Epoxy is best on bare metal regardless. You can prime over other coatings but doing that is like building a new house using a old foundation. So if you can, strip to bare metal and epoxy prime. The DP90LF is a good epoxy.
Just prior to painting wipe parts with automotive wax and grease remover.

 

Well great question, this question is answered in detail in the rattle can paint thread, there really is not a set time but the moisture in the air plays a huge roll in this. I would be considered a diy guy myself because I don't do restoration jobs full time anymore, so what I do is I take one panel, strip the paint with a variable speed buffer with 8" 80 grit sandpaper, removing Paint rust, then I degrease and epoxy. You can strip a panel and epoxy start to finish in 3 hours tops. You can then do bodywork on top of the epoxy next day or next year. So never let bare metal sit no longer than it has to.
I wouldn't epoxy over a self etch or ospho. Not that it wouldn't work, its just not really needed if it cant touch bare metal and big chances of adhesion loss going over an ospho type product. If you use a self etch, just use a urethane primer over self etch.
As far as a rattle can primer here are a list of good brands I have tested but just use these for small spots. These are not your crap Auto parts store primers:
Transtar 2n1
Upol
SEM
Spray Max
And I make a phenolic modified dtm sealer in most any color you want, not really meant for sanding but excellent adhesion to metal and helps seal out moisture. Hope this helps.

 

Lol well I don't like getting in pissing contest either. Body shops and diy guys are great it's Paint reps that get me. They are so brand driven and they only know what the company wants them to know.
We don't have anyone set up anywhere in the state of NJ. I will be happy to help recommend the right products even if it's not mine, just send me a pm.

 

Just read your blog on safety, now I'm scared . I have a long full beard and was wondering what you would use for breathing . Ben using a 3m with7046 cart. Will a SAS full coverage with a pure air 2000 work with my beard . Also what do you use for gun cleaning . Been using swap meet 5 gal . Lacquer .

 

I think you will be fine painting right over that spot. Just Paint over that spot first until you get full coverage, giving proper flash times between coats, then start painting the rest.
A tip for sanding big panels with rivets , get a velcro pad for your da sander and stick a full sheet of a red scuff pad on the da and now you can sand over the whole panels without issue and you don't have to worry about sanding the rivets to bare metal.

 

Just take some Vaseline and put around the seal that will help. Wear full Paint suit and gloves. I am not that familiar with SAS but that sounds like a great system.
you shouldn't be scared of paint, just don't be stupid around it. Having reduced pressure spray Guns will also help by reducing the amount of overspray paint in the air.

 

You nailed my question. Thank you!

 

Thank you for your quick reply . Blue

 

Guru,
Thanks, sounds good!

 

Picklex 20 and epoxy primer , do they get along?
I find mixed answers

Maybe the epoxy is brand specific for picklex 20, I have some lightly pitted areas I'd like to treat

 

I am not familiar with picklex 20, can you provide a website or msds sheet? I have a epoxy that is loaded for bear that will flow and level over light pitting.

 

Looked up Picklex 20 msds, its 85 percent water, 7 percent phosphoric acid and 8 percent undisclosed solvent blend, which since it degreases as well and is water based is probably a blend of ammonia or alcohol. Says it prevents rust for inside storage, I personally don't know if it has any long term benefits. But I am unfamiliar with the need to acid etch metal over sanding or blasting and applying epoxy. Hope this helps, and no I wouldn't recommend a epoxy on top of that. Epoxy has a chemical bond to metal that is unsurpassed by any other coating out there. So I wouldn't put a barrier between the two.

 

Thanks man !!!
So this little pits where rust lives will stay there under epoxy, I hope.

 

Yea, if you need a little epoxy to test let me know.

 

I'm testing it on the roof of a pick up.
2 areas each as big as my forearm.

 

Send me a pm with your address and I will send you some epoxy to do side by side test.

 

So I'll add more to the mix...I use Picklex a lot, and following instructions very carefully about wetting and removing it, I've put HOK epoxy primer over it, and not had any problems. But I am meticulous about getting it ready!

 

Yea but if you just prepped the metal with just epoxy you wouldn't have had any problems either. Especially if you are meticulous let the epoxy do the work for you, one step.

 

So "rust never sleeps" is true unless it's under epoxy?

Yesterday I shot some of the USC 300-1 for the first time & sorta really pushed my luck with it to see what I could get away with filling stuff. Anxious to see how it blocks down.

 

Technically rust sleeps under anything that deprives it of oxygen but I think there is some confusion here as to why the products are being used. I am guessing that paint guru is suggesting spraying epoxy over rust free metal where 31Vicky it sounds like you are talking about metal that still has rust in the surface pits and that is why you are applying the Picklex.

 

300-1 shocked me, I sell that primer to a"quickie paint jobs" type body shop, and they use right over 40 grit bodyfiller scratches and it fills excellent!

 

I respect your knowledge on this subject and 40 grit leaves serious scratches. Initially filling them is relatively easy.
The true test is the surface appearance after the "filler" has dried/cured and shrank as much as it will.
How does 300-1 look after all that? John