History So, you think this is not Traditional?

The rules set by the NSRA were for cars to be considered to be street rods were pre '49.

What came from months perhaps years of cussing and discussing was that around '64 or '65 the beginning of the muscle car era started and that was basically the demise of hot rodding as we know it.

During the period right after the "last war to end all wars" was tremendous from innovation in hot rodding and customizing. Hell it was a great time for cars in general. Take a quick look at history and you will see where I am coming from.

 

I'm technically a FNG , but I'll dare to stir up some more people by saying that a true traditional Hot Rod is a reasonably lightweight car (preferably coupe or roadster) that is just getting old enough to need some work, and old enough to be bought cheap by young people, but not so old that it has stopped depreciating yet. And then it gets modified to either look better (YMMV) , or go better than a much more expensive new car.
So, technically, todays T-banger is probably a 95 Civic with a 2.4 CR-V engine, the AV8 is an Integra with a J-series V6, and todays Deuce coupe with a Hemi is maybe a late Fox-body with an LS-swap.
But, hat is not Ryan or the HAMB's idea of traditional, so if I want to read about or talk about cars like that, I will do it elsewhere.
Also, when I can finally hide away enough cash from my SO to build myself a VolksRod, it won't be posted on these pages.

But, when I some day have a decent garage, and find a rusted to death old Model A, or late 30's 4-door Buick in someones barn, and then throw in an early 80's Caprice 305 (offcourse trying to make it look like a '57 283) , or even a late 70's Cad 500, I believe it's pretty safe to post it here, as long as I build it 'like they would have' in the 50's.

PS, I'm also sure many of the gassers and bagged 50's cars that get posted on the HAMB technically aren't all that traditional, even if most of them turn out pretty awesome

PS2, with GM building so many turbocharged cars in the early 60's, why are there so few cars on the HAMB with Turbos?

 

The NSRA cut-off was strictly for the bodies; it certainly didn't keep the billetmobiles out (and still doesn't).

 

I think that there are a lot of reason that turbos don't get utilized much.

They really didn't get used much back way back when. Roots blowers were used a lot on the track but turbos were not, hot rodders had a tendency to emulate their favorite racers so roots blowers got used a lot.

Turbos don't look as cool as a big ol' roots blower sticking up out of the hood, and the look is important to a lot of the fellas. Hemis get used for the same reason by the way, most of the hemis I see wouldn't pull an old sick woman off a bed man but they look cool.

To find a turbo that is up to the task of working with most V-8s is a tough one. At least to find an old one up to the tack. GM used them on Corvairs and baby oldmobiles. A late turbo can be found and sized to spool properly with most V-8s but to find a vintage turbo that will work would be nearly impossible. I personally have considered a pair of paxtons, like used on the turbo corvair, but I am afraid that even if I found them that getting them to spool properly would be a problem and they may actually overrun themselves. the 'vair didn't really turn many Rs.

You are pretty much spot on when it comes to modern hot rodding and using a late model body to build a car. Where it misses the mark for this site is that we are set to preserving history, some of it is damaged history but it is historical none the less.

There is a lot of non traditional stuff on the site that gets passed off as traditional. most of us have learned to live with it. The overwhelming majority of us really don't build true traditional hot rods at least not historically sound hot rods, but we build what we can live with and that is probably as close as anyone will ever find anywhere in the world.

So while I have heard that one must use an SBC built before '65 I never really got an answer to my question. Bueler, Bueler, anyone?

 

That's an interesting insight. One I'm not wanting to argue at all, I just find it interesting. I'll have to chew on that for awhile. I've always struggled with the need for all the silos' in the car culture. Hot rodder's don't like muscle car guys, who don't like low riders, who don't like sports cars guys, who don't like rice rockets, who don't like bikers, who don't like sport bike riders. WTF??? Something must be wrong with me, cause I like 'em all....

 

what was the question?

 

LOL I don't like any of 'em.

There actually was a time that there wasn't a schism between scooter trash and hot rodders. That was during my time on this planet but before I started playing with cars or bikes. Hot rodders began trying to clean up their act and scooter tramps didn't bother. it wasn't until my generation started having a mid life crisis that bikes started becoming main stream, long after hot rods.

There are a lot of us with eclectic taste on this board but for the focus of the board we leave them off the board.

 

I’m well aware a lot of guys on here have far more knowledge of traditional hot rodding than I’ll ever have, but from my understanding on the subject the way ‘traditional cars’ were build back then is different than they are now. No matter how much people try to push against change and handcuff themselves to a strict set of rules defined in any given by-gone era, they will find themselves breaking the those very rules to some degree just to try to abide by them. By this I mean back then there wasn’t the same kind of global exposure available as there is today. Today’s internet availability supplies both influences and parts that simply weren’t around. Like it has been already mentioned, what was traditional on the east coast wasn’t anywhere else, and the SoCal scene wasn’t what everyone was doing in the Midwest. Not to mention most of the tools that fill our garages weren’t only not around back then, but the general level of detail and skill really isn’t that traditional. I can’t remember ever seeing the level of fabrication and metal finishing in old photos that is common place here.

So in my opinion, in order to build a truly period correct traditional hot rod today, you would not be able to use any tools that were not available in the given period. The internet would not be allowed to be used to source parts, ideas or instruction (the HAMB’s use of the internet is untraditional). Parts and services would need to be sourced locally or over the phone, but the needed phone numbers would need to be looked up in a good old paper phonebook (not your smartphone). Oh yeah, any pictures you would take of your build would have to be taken with a traditional camera, and you would have to wait until the film was developed to see if any of the pictures came out. I think you can see where I’m going with this.

I guess what I’m trying to say here is that the evolution of modern times will always bleed into the past, and will eventually make doing something completely period correct impossible. We just have to continue to move forward to keep our hobby alive. Old parts are getting harder and harder to find, not to mention the ones that are still useable are becoming out of reach for a lot of us. Is a Brooksville body really and more traditional than a glass body? While I understand and agree with a lot of the guidelines (no IRS, EFI etc.), how many traditional builds on here have MII frontends and are sitting on airbags? How many guys have Th350’s, 700R4’s and T-5’s in their cars? The point I’m trying to make is it really doesn’t matter what you put in your car, just as long as you build it and build it properly and safely. A little tolerance to the use of some newer parts should be given as long as they are used tastefully.

 

Me? or the original question. Both were designed to stir the pot.

But here is mine:

You do have to go back to post #1 for this to actually make any sense.

 

Understood, and I try to abide by that. Hope I'm not coming off as arguing or making trouble with anyone, that's not my intent at all, just conversing about it, that's all. To be honest I'm just glad this place is here, with all of the great, great info available. The site rules are what they are, and I'm OK with that.

 

If you were to be the "...only 65 and older..." version of fundamentals and tradition this would be out:


Who in their right mind would say this car doesn't belong here? Not for nuthin, this was the 71 version of it.

This is a visual example of "you know it when you see it", no? Our founder has shared some completely new builds this year in the front page. The hard nose "gotta be" types probably get their knickers in a twist over some of his coverage because of that whole back-in-the-day thing. And another thing we keep seeing as to trying to hone a definition out of this, that "gotta do it yourself with only what you can scrounge" thing. By those strict definitions we'd have to eliminate any of the Spence Murray R&C Dream Truck coverage and any pictures or discussion of the "Hirohata Mercury". Those guys didn't build those 2 iconic customs by themselves at home. Many of the cars that have graced the pages of early hot rod and custom mags were NOT built by their owners completely solo, perhaps in more cases than we know none of the car was owner-built. We pay homage to Barris, Winfield, Tom Hanna, Tony Nancy, and a cast of others to numerous to mention. All "for hire" by those who knew what they liked but couldn't tell a machine screw from a sheet metal screw, or were better competition drivers than they were builders.

Understand please, I know what all this is about and I like when the topic comes up now and then. It's almost a refresher course of what we like and are generally about here. As our bud 'beaner said earlier, this is a good thing. I'd never intentionally or perhaps even accidentally want to dis the board and it's membership/staff, but this whole thing does best when you don't take it too serious, or even take yourself and your build so serious either. If the HAMB was like a civil service with rigid demands or some nearly military discipline required gig, right hand raised, I'd say bye-bye in a heartbeat. Hoodlums have very little discipline by nature, and that past we like hung that label on this shit a long time ago. Just act accordingly, right?

 

Phttttt there is noting in the world wrong with voicing an opinion or with sharing information.

I think that we have become too refined in a lot of ways to be considered traditional, at least as far as I recall from the grown up hot rodders and racers when I was a little guy. Maybe it is because we all come from different traditions. People who did not speak their mind when I was little were considered to be two faced, granted I was not raised in a religious home.

The hot rodders that were around when I was coming up were a rough bunch and some of them most of the fellas on this site believe were gawds. ( I started to give examples here but they were too graphic)

Anyway speak your mind, if I think you are wrong I'll speak mine. easy peezy.

 

Use of Coker tires, traditional or not? They were made well after 1965.
Use of Brookville bodies with Lacquer or patina, traditional or not, made well after 1965.
Nine inch ford read ends, or Currie and Moser stuff. Traditional or not? Lots of 9 inch stuff made after 1965.
New/Old SW winged gauges? Same question.
Aftermarket wheels like rockets or vintique? Same question.
Built in a style of rods built prior to 1965 or built with components no newer than 1965. Grey line indeed!

 

Beaner
I've been hearing for years that the 64-65 GTO started the whole "musclecar" deal, but that term became more of a buzzword for a whole generation of cars (and people).
There are also a lot of people that would argue what started the "decline of real hot rodding", here is just a few of the cars/engines that (I) think many people feel started it.
Olds Rocket V8, 1949
Chrysler Hemi 1951
Ford Y block 1954
Chevrolet small block 1955
I personally feel these are what actually helped define the whole hot rod deal.

 

Only a true flathead racer would believe that valve in head v8s were the beginning of the end for hot rodding.

On the year thing with the muscle cars I was just parroting the conclusions we came town back when drama was common on the HAMB and we still were mean to each other.


Its funny I was around a few guys from different age groups that were discussing the origins of the muscle car. Guys our age in the discussion were saying that the first real muscle car was the GTO, guys a little older were saying that it was the 409 Bisquit and guys a little older then that were saying that the first real muscle car was the Chrysler 300.

Guess its all just a matter of perspective.

 

As a second year student at HAMB U, I have learned a lot about what "traditional hot rod" means and you are affecting my future plans for cars I want to build and activities I want to participate in. Nothing I own currently fits your "true" definition but I chose to be an alliance member anyway.

I ride a Harley, Hog member since 2003, I give the "wave" to anyone stupid enough to run around on two wheels in a minivan rich environment (never seen one without damage on it). I personally don't see why the bar and shield elevates me above others.

Tuners, RR's, Muscle cars, classics, low riders, hot rod, street rods... it doesn't matter to me what they drive as I have good friends behind the wheel of all of them. That said you have to respect tradition, rules and social mores or don't play in their pool. I keep my post 65 cars off this site out of respect. I do not have a build thread for my Speed 33 roadster because it doesn't fit here, I know that and I'm cool with it.

Respect the site, respect each other, respect tradition and we all might just learn something.

 

I like knowing the H.A.M.B. is traditional and nostalgic...which gives many of us, who value the hot rodder past, a place to congregate and thrive. There are tons of car "venues'' forums out there in cyber-space....but if lines aren't drawn in the sand, and car era's get murky, then the value of our nostalgia and car culture gets muddled into a mixed and confused state , where confusion reigns supreme. The draw of this site to me, is the camaraderie and appreciated values of tradition and heritage to an earlier time. As long as it ''looks'' like and is ''inspired'' like an old hot rod/custom...I'm fine with it...reproduction parts or old parts, funds or availability.....I applaud the time, effort, investment, and dreams of any who keeps a great time in car history alive with their endeavors. I would just hate to lose the culture of ''inspired'' real nostalgic hot rodding into a complexity of 'modern' philosophies and modern directions. Keep it simple, ...keep it safe...and keep it nostalgic------- Ray

 

You never heard me say that

 

Well, you was sorta right; the first 'Vette IRS he put in it was a '67, but when he rebuilt it in '07, it got a '65 'Vette IRS. Close enough for my tastes, either way. K6

 

LOL I don't spend a lot of time waving at anyone on two wheels, I return the favor if they acknowledge me and it is not the bar and shield that makes me different from the rest, it is a different symbol that separates me from the rest and I am not sure how the yuppie bikers know when I am not fully dressed.

But we are not a bike site. So while some of us ride there is no reason to post our rides is there.

I have learned something on the HAMB that maybe a lot of people will never figure out, you don't have to own a period ride to be part of the gang. We openly share information and that is what makes our community more then any other thing.

One of us had to.

 

That is hilarious ^^^. It took me minute, still smiling.

 

A pet peeve of mine is when I see a sbc in a pre 65 "period" build and right there in front of god and everybody is a pair of the accessory bolt heads (post 68), or when they screw bolts in the holes and cut them flush. I don't care if it's a later block, but those heads look about as period correct as whitewalls on Centerline wheels.

 

Valve in head??????? whats that?

 

Well to you is it primarily tail lights and noise.

@roseville carl I suppose that it could be an Ardun.

Now there is a real gray area to me, an Ardun is a valve in head conversion which for all intents and purposes makes a flathead a valve in head, but the true hardcore flathead guys still insist that they are a flathead.

That said thee used to be a couple of fellas up your way that were winning and winning regularly 1320 feet at a time with flatheads. Right up into the '60s.

 

my back yard with a mini junkyard and garage ya Im a little crazy

 

This poor horse. Ya'll done beat it to death..

 

I'm definitely a FNG and don't try to pass off my coupe as anything but what it is. It ain't traditional. No kidding. It is "in the spirit of" or "traditionally inspired" I'd like to think. That's about it. So far I've slid in like Pete Rose.

Everyone builds their cars for some reason right? The love of the build itself, to cruise in, to show off at shows, to race, whatever... Mine was built with an eye towards getting down a strip in a hurry yet being able to drive all about town with my wife shotgun on weekends. 385 series Ford engines didn't show up until '68. If I had the $$$ for a SOHC or a blown Hemi I'd have gone that route in a heart beat for the nostalgic cool factor. But I did have the coin for a 385 series and already knew how to make them go with a pile of spare parts ready to be used in something. Stopping a 140+mph car after the stripe with 4 wheel drums didn't turn me or my loving wife on so it got disks up front. Fuel lines, cage, scatter shield, safety belts, tranny dipstick, wheel studs, overflow, battery hold down, etc. have to meet current NHRA standards for your ET before they'll let you on their tracks so there's that. It kind of kills a bunch of traditional stuff if you actually want to drag it and go fast. Heck the legal FED cars need cages now a days to meet NHRA standards such that it's easier to build a new FED than try to make an older one fit the rules with cage modifications. The old hoop and diagonal support bar found in legit 60's gassers don't pass NHRA tech today unless its slower than the cutoff. 11.5 I think.

And this is why I have the thing they way it is.

 

Hoping for one more whinny!!!!

 

Oh man, I fucking love this! Should be required HAMB reading material. Genius.

 

With all due respect, this is ridiculous. Definitely NOT what the HAMB is all about. Don't recall anyone here ever expounding crap like this.. I expect that you do not necessarily mean that YOU think this is what we should do, but rather this is what you think others mean when they say "period correct." (trying to give you the benefit of the doubt)