Technical Lacquer Paint Questionnaire

Yes, my base is actually very close to the orginal Sikkens Auto Base, which is a lacquer. Base coat has a lot more pigment, which will prevent a gloss due to the pigment load, but you are putting a clear on top so it doesn't matter. You play a very fine line on single stage trying to get that right balance of coverage and shine. But also the lacquer we use is a non sanding lacquer, it would clog up sandpaper super fast (like most basecoats do)
I want to try some of the lacquer resins we have in stock and see how they sand and buff next week if not too busy.

 

I love lacquer. A friend of mine has his 40 vert painted with black nitro lacquer. After 38 years it has small cracks that can be fixed. Car is driven a lot and all types of weather. Mine (avatar) is acrylic enamel, sanded with 1200 grit and buffed. 15 years old now. I would srip mine down and repaint in laquer if it was available.

 

Thanks George , I'm always fearful of posting "ot" pics & respect the rules , but that pic is solely for lacquer lovers. These lacquer pic's will put it in perspective & back in non "ot" line. Paint Guru it's a Interesting read about the VOC's, if they could've been in compliance all along or adapted, it looks truely as if the paint producers have missed this small but important niche in the market. Great thread by the way. Needs a bath& not been polished in a long long time....... Here's a survivor lacquer job , awaiting a mequiars ultimate compound session. 1963 model no cracks, checks or blemishes...... Flux

 

George, you said this quote on page 2. Here on page 4 you take another shot. What is this intended to do, other that inflict more damage to the thread? OP, will there be a wide variety of color's available as well?

 

Like G. Anderson said, no one should use lacquer paint any more. It does not hold up, needs buffed to look right after painting, and is illegal to use in almost every place.

 

I shot RM's Alpha Cryl (usually with PNT 90 thinner) on an almost daily basis from 1977 until 1981. I worked in a shop here in Manitoba, Canada so our weather can include a temperature range of -50F to over 100F. 20 plus coats were very unpopular up here because of cracking, but there was lots used for spot repair jobs. I would often add a few drops of flex agent (used in the paint on the plastic behind the 5 mph bumpers of the day) to prevent cracking. In the late 70's RM came out with a Urethane clear for it that eliminated a lot of polishing, but it still had the orange peel look comparable to enamels. It was certainly possible to shoot a reasonable finish that didn't need to be polished even with the straight Acrylic Lacquer, but it always looked better after polishing anyway. We didn't have the 2k primers back then, so one of the issues we had was getting the undercoats dried fast enough to repair the car and push it out the door on time. Very few people would request lacquer jobs in those days, and the ones that did we would talk them out of it. I've shot a few enamel jobs in a gravel floored machine shed as well, so I am very familiar with the limitations the at-home hobbiest deals with, but for my own projects I would still go with more modern finishes.
If I had to start with wet sanding for polishing, I would start with "dead" 600 grit and coarse compound. I used a sheepskin exclusively, but stayed away from edges and crowned panels. You learned to walk lightly. Most of the work was done with some green snot med/fine compound whose name escapes me now. We finished up with 3M's Fill N Glaze and some good quality wax. I haven't bought any lacquer up here for years, but most of the industry on this side of the border has moved to water based products ( home interior enamels aren't even available any more) so I doubt that lacquer would be easily accessed in Canada.

 

You have Lacquerphobia.

 

I'd like you to define illegal. The advent of waterborne color makes little sense when you view the list of material used in the automotive refinish industry. I dropped all interest in it as I learned that the bare metal prep primers, 2K primers and clears all remained solvent based. So they give us an enviro-safe element that's the LEAST VOLUME USE of the job? Surely I'm not up on the latest bit of tech and still have little interest in it. My work volume of complete finishes numbers in single digits per year. If that's criminal I can't see it. In my opinion this same thinking, making old ways unlawful, is the same as trying to outlaw the use and then ownership of our old cars. If I filter my air, maintain a clean work environment, dispose of waste safely, then I submit in harsh terms that it's nobody's fuckin business what I put on MY car. Maybe I'm just an outlaw...

 

I don't know for certain but I don't think it's real lacquer. It smells nothing like lacquer and if you thin it with lacquer thinner it ruins it. I didn't read the can that says if must be reduced to use acetone.

 

ya shoulda seen the NASA paint connecting photo cells oh
things i can not elaborate on ... about 1985...
off subject i can tell you about my Deceased father (worked in the aerospace industry)
and over at Ryan Aeronautics in 1967 they were driving an old jeep start, stop, steer, -n- shift,
in the parking lot.... FROM the 2nd floor (remotely)
now back on subject...
like 31vickey said were all crazy its not a competition.

 

That could be so, but what about Paint for Cars (Trinity)?? I live in SoCal and I can order (and have ordered) Lacquer paint from them, and yet I can't take a hour drive out to San Diego and buy Lacquer paint from TCP Global because I'm a California resident. And Lacquer primer can be bought here. I can go to the local auto parts and buy a gallon of it.

 

outfit called tamco claims to sell lac and to ca. residents , never used it but at $99 gal I will give it a try

 

Yes, I have spent thousands of dollars accumulating old paint charts. I have color books that date back to 1937. We have scanned most of the colors with our lab grade spectrophotometer. Only thing is, if there is a error in the book, then it will be wrong in our formula base. I also have most fleet colors and newer car colors.
Now I already offer a matte and satin lacquer for dash pads, door panels etc that match orginal colors, however interior color charts are non existent. So I really need something to match off of. Here is a pic of a non friendly car painted with my satin lacquer.

 

Lacquer thinner sucks these days what are all you guys using that are currently painting lacquer?

 

I don't think she offers a buffable version. And its probably a limited number of paint codes because they don't have a mixing system.

 

I shot this in 1986 with PPG Duracryl and it has held up very well. It has a few chips but it gets driven. There is no cracking or shrinkage anywhere on the truck. I have since acquired a set of steel fenders that I want to eventually swap over and take the glass fenders off, and would want to do those in lacquer.

 

ok I will wait for your lac

 

The VOC on the Duplicolor Paintshop stuff complies with CA law at 3.5 and 2.1 respectively for colors and clear. Rat piss probably complies with CA VOC laws too, and it's about the same quality as the Paintshop crap.

TPC Global has a physical business presence in CA so they have to comply with CA laws. Trinity is in NJ (I think) so they're not subject to CA laws. If Trinity were to open a one man office in CA where the employee did nothing but answer phone calls, then they'd have to comply with CA laws too. Kinda screwy, but that's the way things work. The Constitution prohibits states from interfering with interstate commerce based in other states, which is a good thing when you think about how much of a mess it would create if one state could control, or try to control, business practices in other states.

 

We have to comply with voc laws of any state we ship paint to, some places im sure back door stuff, but I will want to have a compliant product. Plus if someone in California wanted to sell our line, I don't want to have to reinvent the wheel. Rather build it compliant because I have a feeling California will be a large market for it.

 

Don't hold your breath, it will take 4-6 months of testing before it could even go to market. I appreciate it though.

 

I agree to a point, but Lacquer like it or not has been made illegal in a lot of areas. Yes, 2k primers use solvents, and there is no waterborne clear made as of yet. So you have to use a solvent based primer, then apply waterborne color, and finish it off with a solvent based clear coat. It makes no sense to me, but it is what it is. I personally don't like breaking the law the highlander. I guess you can do what you feel you need to do

 

I guess you failed to read the part where Paint Guru would make it VOC compliant or not do it.

 

The law isn't a lacquer law its a voc restriction law. There are a few companies selling solvent based low voc basecoat in California now. So making a low voc lacquer is do-able and legal, just have to make sure we don't lose some of the buffing characteristics, and there are many ways to make a compliant lacquer, that will be legal. Unless I misread a single stage for California can be 3.5, clear has to be 2.1?? Is this correct? 3.5 lacquer is very attainable.

 

Thread is getting bogged again. Dude, if you don like and do not use lacquer why concern yourself anymore w/the thread?

 

But the problem lie in low VOC, and the solvent is what makes the lacquer paint workable. Without the solvents, it will be just crap. Also will it last if you can find a low VOC solvent? Yes you can wet sand and buff the paint to bring out the luster again, but is all the work and effort worth the results. My 39 coupe was painted in lacquer twice, then I redid it in Emron, and the last time was in a Base Coat, Clear Coat, and that was by far the best looking paint job. The convertible was painted in 2001 with base coat, clear coat, and looks just as good now as the day it was first painted. I have done some touch up painting on the car using a blender, and you cannot see where I did the work. To me it is just foolish to try and relive the past with lacquer paint, no matter what the results are with the low VOC solvents.

 

Again Paint Guru was not asking for opinions on whether or not you like or think lacquer is a good choice so I am not sure why you keep giving it. Clearly everyone doesn't share your thoughts and Paint Guru is trying to figure out what those that would have interest in the product would want to see as far as performance and traits.

 

All the solvent does is help in the transfer from gun to substrate. If you match up evaporation rate of the solvent to the resin system you put it in, this does not effect the coating at all. Actually a lot of exempt solvents perform a lot better in automotive than your typical reducer but exempt solvents are 2 and 3 times the price.
As far as reliving the past, that's what restoring a old car is all about. Lacquer is a simple system, its not as chemical resistant it will dull out faster, but hey would you rather have a flat head or a ugly ass LS engine. The LS will go more miles and has better fuel economy etc etc but its the owner who makes that final decision on the look feel and smell of his car. But lacquer never went away, there is a lot of lacquer out there still, we manufacture over 200 gallons a month out of our small plant, its just not in your automotive lines anymore, one reason is there is a ton of profit made off of hardeners.
Talking to our chemist today and bouncing ideas off each other, one great thing we now have that didn't exsist in the Automotive lacquer days are UV inhibitors, and better acrylic resins that will intergrate in. This prevents the sun from destroying the film so fast. So on paper, this means that with no wax out in the sun, the lacquer could possibly go 5 years. Typical base clear is only 7 (every paint companies lifetime warranty is a pro rated 7 years). For me things like this are exciting. Trust me I know what you are thinking with lacquer I sell thousands of gallons of automotive base/clear every year, but if lacquer is something you are familiar with, or if you are doing a original car and have spent years hunting down period correct parts only to put a look on that isnt era correct, kinda defeats the purpose of spending all those hours buying those parts. And trust me, we WILL build a bad ass lacquer, might take a while, only sell about 20 gallons to you guys on here and I will have to pawn my car titles for profit loss lmao but hey this is a lot cooler than building 200 gallons of New Cat Yellow.

 

I looked at the heading of this thread
and it doesnt say Do you like Lacquer?
If you dont get it stay the fuck off this thread
B

 

Anybody got an answer for me on the thinner?... I used to use a lot of laquer primer for protection while I built stuff ... I used laquer thinner for gun wash ... Now the only stuff I can buy is wierd , , reacts funny and I need a brush to clean my gun... Has no bite and bearly effects paint
I even bought some stuff out of state ... That stuff sucks too