Projects My 1956 Cadillac Coupe DeVille Build

Figured I should make one thread pertaining to this car than a bunch of random other threads.

The car is a 1956 Cadillac Coupe DeVille. Body is mostly solid, but the floor has some holes in it. The original 365 v8 was bad so the previous owner swapped in a 365 from a low mileage sedan he told me. Its missing the generator, air cleaner, and brake master cylinder/booster.

I rebuilt the carb, points and condenser. Tried to fire it up but the keys dont work. Not sure if its just locked up or what. So Ive been hotwiring it with a screwdriver.

When I first tried, I tried and tried and nothing. Would get the occasional fireball out of the open exhaust. My father in law who was an old mechanic for many years helped me determine that there was little to no compression in the cylinders. The original owner left it open with no carb on it and the rings I think got stuck a little. So I removed the plugs and put a 50/50 mix of ATF/brake fluid down each cylinder, loaded until it was dripping out each hole. Let that sit a couple days, then manually cranked it to get all the fluid out. Cleaned the plugs up and I was able to get it to fire after a couple days.

Right now Im bypassing the old cruddy fuel pump and just loading the carb with gas. It will run varying times 2-10 seconds but shuts off quickly.

Most of the vacuum lines were broken so I taped off some and bought a flare kit and learned to make lines.





Here she is next to my 50 series 61 sedan



The car needs everything redone.

These master cylinders rebuilt, with core charge are $800. Purely ridiculous so Im going to put in something else and make it work.

My budget is low so the build will go slowly. I want to get it running decent enough to test the drivetrain and see how it acts. Being that its not a numbers matching engine, and it had low compression, AND that rebuilds on this drivetrain cost 5 times more than anything chevy, I might consider ditching the whole thing, finding a junkyard 454 from a truck, upping the compression, and a new trans so I can reliably road trip this thing in overdrive down the highway at 70 mph. These transmissions Ive heard can be problematic, and if you have the money even, finding someone who knows them well to rebuild is also tough. I know a guy who spent more than I have in both my cadillacs getting his engine and trans rebuilt, only to have issues. I cant risk that. I genuinely want to drive this car, and have no issues driving it any distance.

So right now, I'll go about testing the current 56 drivetrain with minimal investment just to go down the road and see. If its strong I'll keep it, otherwise Im going to build something dependable and reliable, and not spend caddy money on it.

My 50 is all original numbers matching, and Ive spent a lot reworking various components, but its not geared for 70 mph, and with the original engine and trans I cant go distance without being nervous as hell I wont make it. This 56 I want to be turn key, no issues or unknowns.

Thats all for now!

 

Cool start but, this says it all =

- keep plugging away, nothing is easy.

 

Are you on drugs or what? The rebuild kit for the caddy is hardly five times that of a chevy and takes no more experience than rebuilding a chevy. You sure didn't look very hard to find anything. The rebuild kit for the master cylinder varies between $30 and $165. The complete engine is
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Deluxe-Engi...-365-V8-NEW-/191800762735?hash=item2ca837616f

 

If your tranny goes bad, you can upgrade to a 700r4 overdrive with mechanical lockup and and cruise 70 mph at 2300 rpm.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Wilcap-CAD-350-Early-Cadillac-to-Chevy-Transmission-Adapter,8762.html

 

365's are great engines and I've had a few. I have also installed SBC/TH400 in a couple of Cadillacs and been very happy with the outcome; there's no shame in that at all.
472/500 Cadillac Would probably be my recommendation though...... anything but a BBC....

 

You're right my mistake!!!! Its more like 6 times the price of a chevy rebuild kit!! I guess its the drugs Im taking! Also my master cylinder is missing entirely. From what I see buying a rebuilt one outright is anywhere around 6-800.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Small-Block-C...e-Roller-HV-Oil-Pump-/331355487541?nav=SEARCH

 

Thats 500 for just an adapter, my understanding is Id need a different starter as well, plus the cost of a transmission. Thats a lot of additional cost just to use the 365.

 

Why no BBC? The 365 has 400 ft/lb torque. I dont think a 350 is going to do that like a 454.

 

1946 caddy, go easy on fender. Hes got a basket case like my 56 buick wagon was .Hes done 1 caddy aready so he knows what he doing. He is on a budget like I was. He will figure it out, and might be drinking a little early in the day like I was with my 56 buick wagon .Bruce Heres before. JUST SAYIN.

 

HERES after.Bruce.

 

Fender try look for parts here on the H.A.M.B. I found a lot here for my 56 buick wagon for it here and nice people here too.Bruce.

 

Fender, theres a guy in Flordia that rebuilt my master cylinder and booster for the 56 buick wagon for about $200. I will see if I still have his address if you want. Bruce.

 

I guess I didn't go to school where you did so my math may not come out the same. the caddy kit is $1281. A comparable big block chevy is $461 but doesn't include rocker arms,push rods,valve springs,valve guides,intake valves, or exhaust valves. I sure you're such a nice guy that the seller will throw all the extra parts in for free. This is 2.735 times as much for the caddy rebuild kit with all your free added on parts. Your 6x's is 6x461=$2788, teach me some math.
I sure you will find a 545 and tranny in excellent shape for almost no money. 454's run hot so you will need a new radiator, plumbing to hook up radiator, new exhaust,wiring to convert 12v motor to 6 volt, new front and rear motor mounts, new shift linkage, new throttle linkage, alter your drive shaft to fit. And as a added bonus, get 10 miles per gallon.

 

He doesn't have a core.

 

By master cylinder, I expect you are talking about the Dreaded Treadle Vac assembly or DTV?
Yes, cores are expensive as are rebuilds. They can also be dangerous so you should plan on updating to a tandem master.
And a Chebby motor? Who wants another cool old car with nothing cool under the hood. Gawd!
Take your time & do it right, lots of support for the early Caddys & many parts here on the HAMB.

 

Buddy I dont know why you're trying to pick a fight over precisely how much more expensive a caddy drivetrain rebuild is versus a chevy. I don't know where you pulled $1281, and $461 as those exact prices are nowhere on ebay that I've seen. No matter what numbers you choose, we can all agree that nearly 3 times as much is considerably more.

The caddy as she sits right now needs full exhaust, a recored radiator ($500 for a proper one!), generator, brake master, and more I'm sure. I fully understand it will take some modifications to hook up. The point is that the car could be very functional and reliable with a chevy drivetrain for a fraction of what it'd take to fully rebuild my drivetrain and its components to a point of equal functionality and reliability. There is no arguing that fact.

Even if I take the plunge to rebuild the 365, theres no guarantee the transmission is healthy. And outside of that, even if I then decide to drop the likely $2k to redo the 1956 hydramatic, it will take some hunting and shipping to get to somebody who is competent with this specific transmission.

Also, the 56 is 12 volt from the factory, not 6 volt. And honestly, I'm really not worried about mpg's. Its a 50's cadillac for christs sake. If I wanted mpg I'd get a civic.

 

Shes not going to be a show car. I want to drive this thing, and drive it anywhere I like. Road trips.

To re-iterate I have a 1950 cadillac. Its all original. 6 volt system. Everything right down to the cloth insulated wires. Its really cool and unmolested. But you can bet your ass I'm not going to hop on the highway and drive 3 hours away. Its not geared to do 70 at a reasonable RPM. I'm leaving it because of its originality. Cool around town but nothing I would call dependable. Its left me stranded enough that I'm over bragging rights or impressing somebody at a car show.

The 56 has another engine and trans from a different 56, its missing several components entirely and all likely needs a rebuild. My experience with the 50 and the current mechanical condition of the 56 lend me to want to explore all possibilities before I pull the trigger on a drivetrain.

Theres a member on here who has a 56 who I've spoken to, and he spent I think atleast 6k rebuilding the engine and trans, only to have the trans make a weird whining noise intermittently that he cant get figured out. He told me he doesn't go over 60 on the highway, nor would he trust it on a road trip for fear of it breaking. He told me at that point he's going to buy the adapter plate and run a chevy trans.

Its easy to talk about this stuff but until you're spending real cash money and actually driving these things places the story changes.

 

Build it the way you want to build it! I can totally understand wanting reliability and keeping cost down. Love those Caddys btw. Good luck.

 

Oh 1946 caddy.I missed that.Bruce.

 

I agree with Bird man. I got a lot of my parts for my 56 buick wagon off here.Bruce.

 

Don't get fired up on the internet. Text never comes out the same as conversation. Post #3 was a link to a FULL 365 overhaul kit with shipping rounded up to 1281 bucks. Click his post, and you'll see >>> THIS for $1281 - complete overhaul kit


Having said that, I'd work on a master cylinder core and find a rebuilder .... and keep finaggling firing up what you have. Even a smoking 365 is better then a 454 "also ran" to me. I only say that because everything looks complete enough to jack with for a couple months of Saturdays. It bolts in, and no headaches of chasing all the odds and ends that are forgotten when these so called easy swaps are recommended.

So many cool Cadillac posts here(yours included by the way), you're bound to have an easier time just keeping things simple. Post video's, ask for neighborhood HAMB call outs, and keep tinkering.

My uncle loved those old Cadillac engines. Beckley WV had many a junkyard Cadillac yanked and plunked in by him all the way into the 1980's. This was at Grady Whitlock Ford of all places. He rebuilt zero of his. My Uncle Bobby was Superman .... but he would "aww shucks" ya' and tell you that was BS anyway. Good luck !!

 

I appreciate it

 

http://cadillacinternational.com/page7.htm

 

Well I cleaned up the fan pulley and water pump and their hardware with a 2 night soak in white vinegar and a lot of steel wire brushing.

Changed the oil - took a screw driver to pop the black sludge "gasket" shall we say. Nothing came out initially when I undid the oil pan plug. Couldnt warm up the engine yet, no cooling system in place.

I imagine the water pump will need to be rebuilt.

Put on new spark plugs and spark plug wires, old stuff was nasty.

New fuel pump is on its way.

While under the car I realized the PO left the trans support out when swapping engine and trans. So I'll have to make a new one. Joy!

 

As long as we're spending YOUR money on the rebuild of YOUR car, chrome everything too.
As for the 454, I'd have no problem going with that. Reliability plus.
Motor homes are a great source. I have a 1985 Gulf Stream with 36k on the clock.
If I had your delimma, I'd be scrapping a M/H.

 

Y'know.....I totally agree with you on swapping a fat-block chevy in the ol' girl. It's a caddy and as such, won't have the hood up. Hell, I'd use painted engine parts, no chrome to save a buck or 2 for a firewall mounted master cylinder and vacuum booster . Use a 400 turbo and you already said the trans mount crossmember was absent....build a new one from scrap to get this thing on the road. Sell the 365 to the guy needing a period correct engine for his model A. Let's see how many of the BBC haters step up to buy the 365.
I also agree with you regarding the original caddy transmission. I've always regarded those things as junk and the ratios are certainly not conducive to performance driving or even putting around town...I hate 'em! Blew up too many of them in the 60s.
Drive your car where you want without fear of breaking down away from a big town...BBC/400 turbo parts are available everywhere.

 

My pal 'Bonneville Butch' ran a streamliner with two 500 inch Cads in it. (300 MPH+!)
We bought 8 of them, (500" cad engines) and a 472" for his truck. Installed it WITH a 400 T.H. tranny from a Riviera (rear wheel drive) 472 was 'soft' on power, streamliner and trailer topped 6,000 lbs.
Replaced the 472 with a 500. Now we were cookin'! Good mileage, (shy of 20 MPG in town, less when towing streamliner)
I have had Cadillacs, one was a black '56 Coupe DeVille. Very low, 'A' framed and blocked.
Car was a 'knockout'!
Favorite Caddy was found in '54, a '61 Coupe DeVille (black also) Elderly widow lady burned up the 'Slim Jim' trans, got mad at Aamco for quoting her $2k to fix it!
She sold me the car for $275, I got a McBar adaptor and planted a '37 LaSalle Big Stick trans, steel flywheel and Bear Super Clutch. '59 Olds stick clutch pedal & T.O. Brg fork, I worked for the Cadillac/Olds dealer in San Jose.

(less than $400, but gearing was a "little tall" off the line...I always had LaSalles, grabbed them for $10 up in '54 and since. Sometimes I even find one these days...guys don't know what they are.)
Imagine the reaction downtown, my pretty ex wife with the LONG hair sitting close beside me, as I shifted to second (intentionally 'scraping a gear' to get the attention of the street racers...)
"Hey! That Cad's got a floor box!"
Thing would do 65 in low gear...but took it awhile... LOL
But with its detailed hub caps it was like a 'Big '61 Impala Bubble Top'... Beautiful!

Oh... Bonneville Butch and I were buying those 500" Caddies for $250 each, tops! Some cheaper...Riviera trans, $75 to $275... Worth it!
Use a dual Chev Master, and a Street Rod power vac.
That '56 is 'worth it...' Look at the grille. Pure Art!

 

Put on new spark plugs and wires, changed the nasty oil.

The car wont stay idling. It runs out of gas really fast.

The fuel pump isnt hooked up. Im putting fuel into the carb where the fuel enters and passes through a little screen. Even if I fill the carb all the way to the top until it pours out where the "in" line would be, the car would only idle 10 seconds and run out of gas.

Also, my oil smells like gas. Makes me nervous bc my father in law who used to be a mechanic said they had cars get so much gas in the oil pan that it would explode, blowing the oil pan off the engine.

Yesterday we had the intake up top catch fire, which wasnt fun because there was a fair amount of gas up top. Had to put it out with my T shirt.

Anyhow, thats where Im at. Its wearing me out!

 

Installed new fuel pump, wheel cylinders, hoses, and U joints.

 

For whatever its worth Ive decided to stay with the stock 365 engine, even if I have to rebuild it. Id have to re-engineer too much. The transmission? We'll see how this one acts.