Hot Rods Laying down glass like paint......advice for the DIY crowd?

I once asked an old painter how he got his jobs to come out so slick without wet sanding an buffing. He told me he fogged the car with straight lacquer thinner after the last coat.

I never had the nerve to try it on a car but I did shoot a couple of test panels an it did help to smooth out any dry spots. I have no idea if if would hurt the durability.

 

Consider your reducers and temp range, you need to give the paint time to flow out, if your not using correct reducer temp this doesn't happen.

So practice, and get familiar with the paint line you're using. That's why painters swear by a brand, they know it, know how it will react and learn when to adjust to get results. If you bring them some other brand, it's trial and error.

 

I should temper my 1st reply. I have had it get nice maybe twice in all my years, I also tend to do better with a few coats, surface it out, a couple final coats, surface and polish. Sadly though it's just more trigger time. Speaking of, this one slicked out really well, but without a doubt the most trigger time in all my years. I actually think it was luck...

 

What a F'ing nightmare looks slick!

 

The best advice so far has been to follow the directions. Measuring the amounts exactly is part of the secret, as well as right temp. for materials. Practice is also a big part of it. I find that some colors just lay down better than others. Blacks and dark colors seem to lay down the best for me. White I usually have trouble with, either it's the worst dry spray or it's on the floor. No in between for me. At one point on my life I did at least one complete paint a week for a used car lot. There was never a need to sand and buff those no matter what they cam out like.

A "show" car paint needs to be sanded and buffed no matter what, it gives a deep shine. Unsanded paint usually just shines on top.

 

Love it, needed a good laugh today

 

From a retired 40 plus year old painter, get about 15-20 years experience...

Get the surface ABSOLUTELY FLAT!
You are reflecting light ray that are parallel.
If you have ANY deviations in the flat surface,
the paint will MAGNIFY this!!!!

Use the SLOWEST reducer that you can for the existing conditions.
You are trying to atomize the paint to the FINEST droplets/mist
you can, AND let it flow out after it is on the
surface and before it sets or catalyzes.

Trying to teach someone to lay down glass like paint from
a keyboard is just about IMPOSSIBLE!!!

I used to teach Painting/Bodywork and Welding too...

NOTHING will take the place of hands on and doing
something yourself, screw it up, fix it,
LEARN then do it again about 10,000 times.

I can talk you through the whole process,
from stripping the car to color sand and
buffing to a show shine.

952-212-1118

 

I have probably done about 15 completes from bare metal up, but like I say, I'm not a pro. I realize this is a deep subject, but there are a ton of really good painters on here. Fee knowledge is good.


So, if you were going to shoot a metallic silver and it was available in bc/cc or single stage urethane which way would you go and why?

 

Mine usually look like glass. You know that glass they have on shower doors, that you can't see through?

 

It really is worth just shooting some paint. I'm a hack painter not a pro, but worked in a body shop part time for a while, mostly sanding and panel replacement. After a while the guys would let me shoot primer and eventually jambs, talking me thru it, I learned a lot.
At a construction co I sprayed lots of equipment and lots of doors from high end entry doors with clear finish to steel entry doors and frames, color matched to the building.

My point is the more time you spend with a gun in your hand the better off you'll be. Go buy the biggest fender you can find and some single stage and paint it in vehicle position. When you get it right, buy some single stage metallic, a bitch to shoot right without tiger stripes and no orange peel. If you can lay that down smooth with even metallic distribution, you're doing well. It'll teach you gun control, travel speed, overlap, how to dust the final coat on the metallic, got to keep it wet, but not run.

Post up pics, I'm sure the experienced guys will guide you.

 

Hi ... You need a big air compressor if you want a good finish with a HVLP ...at least free air delivery 15cfm

 

Threads like this are great. It has become obvious that many Hambers are hungry for paint info.
This place is for learning and sharing and many people attain great mechanical and technical info here.
Another thing I've noticed is when it comes to paint finishes, many of us drop the ball, figuring that without several thousands of dollars, we're gonna run primer or rustoleum.
Threads like this may take some of us to the next step. The paint pros here who have been sharing quality information (you know who you are) are making a difference.
The "primer thread", the "cheap paint" thread and ones like this may take us diy wannabes a step up.

I bought a turbine sprayer a few months ago and have have offering to paint anything I can for guys I know. That includes primer, spar varnish, household latex and today I sprayed my wooden patio furniture. Now I know that all these paints have nothing to do with automotive paint, but gun time is gun time. Figuring out spray patterns, viscosity and all the other intricacies are helpful. Soon I'll be epoxy primering my '57 f-100 and then paint, thanks to threads like these.

So, anyone that has solid info, please post. Thanks

 

I should probably let a pro respond but my first paint job at 18 was metallic and it was single stage acrylic enamel... And I got lucky!. It turned out decent... I'm a big believer in single stage with all the clear I see comming off in sheets in the sandiego area but on metallic I would still go base /clear

Again my knowledge is limited but I think if you ever need to sand out a run or go through a coat on buffing that will show up where as if you keep your final coat consistent and all the metallic particles are happy and in formation any runs or spots that need to be buffed are in the clear... You won't hurt the finish by going through a couple coats of clear

I'm curious how the old timers did metallic and heavy flake with single stage

 

What you are looking at here is where I drug my damn shirt through the clear.



I thought, "well I'll be repainting that one...", but it actually sanded and buffed all the way out.



One tech tip that sounds like some bullshit old timer wives tale is drink two beers before you point the gun at the car. I follow this religiously as it kind of settles my nerves a bit before I shoot color on bodywork that I have a year of my life into. Also, anytime you have to wait between coats, drink a beer. This has worked pretty well for me, but I might just be an alcoholic....

Good luck, -Abone.

 

And, beer boxes have thousands of uses...

 

Here's a few things I've learned.
Just Random ramblings.

If you can't 100% ensure a dust free envirment you'll be cutting and buffing no matter how nice it lays down.

Match the temp of the reducer/activators to the surface temp of what you are painting. NOT ambient air temperatures. Going with a slower product is better than faster.

Less product delivered with 70-80% overlap lays down better than more product with 50% overlap. It's more strokes, more time, more soreness, but it's also way more forgiving to the bobbles your body will have spraying a car. If it lays down better it's ultimately faster in the end.

Moving with the precision of CNC robot, spatial awareness, and graceful movement helps a bunch and isn't something learned or practiced on the couch. Thi-chi exercises are great supercharged training but still not what it takes.
(Spatial awareness is the ability to be aware of oneself in space. It is an organised knowledge of objects in relation to oneself in that given space. Spatial awareness also involves understanding the relationship of these objects when there is a change of position.)

You want the correct travel speed and distance and overlap 100% equal over every square centimeter of the car. Not easy unless you practice moving like that or do it every day.

Take a pain reliever (Advil aleve) before you start. Might be just enough to get it shot before soreness and fatigue cause problems. Those problems show up close to the end of the job, exactly where they are most problematic.

Orange peal builds on orange peal making the peaks bigger and sheltering the lows from getting some material.
After you've finished, you can color sand it flat. Lightly with 600 for an idea of contour and perfection ( like a guide coat). Then get all of it to 800. Get rested up and then lay down a final coat or two of clear over the perfected clear surface and it will flow nicely. Aka a flow coat.

Being able to see your wet edge and overlap thru the distraction is important. Sometimes you can't and you need to trust your spatial awareness to tell you what is happening.

Avoid the temptation to look where you've been if you're still sparying. You want to see if you're getting what you want and you're sure to fuck up where you're going. Watch where you're going or go where you're watching,,,,

Plan where your overspray and ventilation flow go across the car.

There's probably more, none of that has to do with the gun though.

Heres a few about the gun.
Don't start out spraying a a roof with a full gun.
No sense in holding up and out at full arms reach 3x the amount of paint you need.
And your "trigger finger" should be up to the nozzle. Pull the trigger with your middle finger.

The exact pressure reading in the cap isn't as important the atomization. Gauges are relative anyway - so mine may say 21 psi into the gun and your gauge says 19 or visa versa. Maybe your gun atomizes better at 25.

The cap needs to be clean in the passages you can't see thru as well as those you can see thru. The air flowing thru there needs to be true.

I inadvertently oversided the air holes in my cap. I though I fucked it up but it sprays better for me now.

Tip size vs product viscosity can be adjusted for thru your body.
Thicker stuff means you need to slow down, open the flow or up a size.
Thinner stuff means you need to speed up, close the flow or down a size.
All that is based on your product and what it wants to knit together on the overlaps.
Fraction too slow and it gets lumpy, fraction too fast and its sagging

 

The first pic probably did look good after drinking all that beer but Im sure it looked a lot better after you sobered up and buffed it out.............Looks good!

 

Did drinking beer have anything to do with dragging my shirt through the clear?? Well, it was the last coat of clear so, ...maybe...

-Abone.

 

That's it.. Read it again. (repeat if necessary)

 

Wow, and I am still trying to unclog the nozzle of my 10 year old can of aerosol spray paint

 

I found the easiest way , I wait till my buddy who races needs a engine built and then I rack up the credits so he paints my car so it looks like glass ( I can bang, fill , sand and weld but not paint ) ,

but often I still wind up using a sanding block with soap and water and the milwaukee buffer and cutting glaze to get it somewhat perfect . but when the 50 goes in hes going to show me as hes retiring from racing this year ...

 

the barter method has worked for me...but when guys move away, it slows things down.

 

I'm always afraid on a metallic that if you have to rub out a single stage it could get dicey......

 

You can't cut and rub a metallic single stage without opening the metallics to the atmosphere. Doing that is just the same result as sanding thru the clear to the base coat. You need to paint it again. Single stage is basically the base coat and protective clear mixed together. Sand it and you'll need to paint it again. You could get away with a buff only to bring up the shine on a metallic single stage.

Now if you're plan can't deviate from a metallic single stage and you plan for doing a final flow coat it won't hurt so bad. Get your first coats down and let them set. Sand it with 600 to get the material flat, 800 to get the scratches down then spray it again with the flow coat. Use a bit more of a slower reducer and it will lay down real nice over the 800 grit surface. it should flow out and lay down like glass at least as smooth as you move the gun

You could also do a clear reduction to build depth with light colors.
Spray coats just to color, then cut the single stage with 50% clear spray a coat. Cut that again to 70% clear and 30% paint & spray a coat. Cut it again to 90% clear and 10% paint for your final coat. The reflective depth is incredible

 

Yeah, never cut a metallic, I learned that one on my first paint job 30+ years ago. I prefer SS myself, never had an issue getting pretty good gloss. If you see George around in my old T take a look. I only cut and buffed a small portion of that. Passenger cowl and B panel come to mind. The rest layed down pretty good. Got great gloss on the overspray in dads garage and on his RED F250 as well! Sprayed it while they were gone one Saturday

 

I sprayed my sons Mustang in a 3 stage, which was nerve wracking. It was a red metallic with a gold intercoat.

 

3 stage is the same as a candy. The mid coat has got to have perfectly even distribution or you'll see it, just like a candy. You get one chance to get it perfect, nerve wracking for sure.

If there's 10 coats of candy and you messed up a little the color variant might be a few percent and not to noticeable to the Naked eye. If there's just 2 or 3 coats and you mess up a little in distributo the color variations can be 25-75% different.

 

Like squirrel said
"squirrel, ]the barter method has worked for me...but when guys move away, it slows things down.[/QUOTE]
Gets me to the point sometimes I should have farmed the job out and just kept working on my own project.People sometimes seem to forget the original barter agreement,move away,or pass away.
Funk 49

 

as what has been stated, it is important to get the surface as smooth and straight as possible and it starts at the metal. if filler is needed it should be sanded down to 180 or 220 grit paper. i then seal with one coat of epoxy, followed the next day with 2k filler primer. i then let it sit and get hard. i block that out with 220 grit dry. then spray it again with 2k filler primer. let sit to get hard then wet sand with 400 or 600 grit. clean and tape off the shop and car. come in the next day with clean clothes,don't pet dog or cat, no coffee, tack rag and spray. wet sand and buff.
painted in a barn