Projects I've Always Wanted A Flathead!

It has been quite some time since I posted here. But, I wanted to share my find with you. I have always wanted a flathead. I search local ads and Craigslist from time to time to see what is out there. A few weeks ago, I came across a listing for an 8Ba and three speed transmission out of a '53 Customline. In texting back and forth with the seller, I was told that the engine turned freely but that a few of the valves would not reciprocate. Let me say that I know nothing about flatheads. But, the price was right (and I've always wanted one)! I am currently in the process of tearing it down, and will likely seek advice in the coming months. I have no real plans for it at this time, except to get the block to a machine shop to see if it is buildable. If anyone can recommend a good shop in the Dallas / Fort Worth area, please let me know. I have posted some pics below. Thanks for the time!

 

gotta start some where

 

I'm no expert (of anything if you ask my Mrs.) but if that's an aluminum timing cover it suggests it is a merc. Cool start.

 

Those late 52' and 53' Ford EAB heads have a higher compression ratio than any other stock Ford heads except Canadian aluminum ones, should also flow better than many after market heads. Have fun with your build!

 

First glance it not a merc, ,std ford EAB heads and the std. 8BA carb. Not a bad thing at all just slightly smaller cubes. There does appear to be a fair amount of rust and obstructions in the water ways. If it checks out ok , yahoo go for it.

 

Mike Bishop on here put out a really great flathead how to book that is an easy read & nicely detailed. I have a copy as I wanted to see if that was an engine to use. Recommend this book as a good start.

 

Great find. Lots of flathead info on Ford Barn sight.

 

Here are a few more pics. Kiwi 4d, there is actually a great deal of rust in the waterways as well as other passages. Not knowing anything about these engines, I wasn't sure what was was normal or common. The water pumps are in terrible shape, and I'm assuming not reusable??

 

I've read a lot about these blocks being notorious for having cracks. I cleaned the surface to see if any were visibly noticeable. I did find one that appears to be a crack. One that looks like a crack at first glance, but might just be a casting mark. And a couple of areas around the valve seats that have pitting.

 

Removed the intake manifold gasket. Is this what the inside is supposed to look like? Also, is complete disassembly possible without an engine stand?

 

That's what many engines of the era looked like inside. A lot of the oils of the day had a pretty high paraffin content, and bunches of it collected inside the engines in the form of sludge as yours did. Think of it as a preservative. The oils of today have a lot of components (detergent) that keeps our engines a lot cleaner on the inside.

Complete disassembly is possible without a stand, but it;s a real pain in the ass flipping the motor around on the floor to get access to everything.

 

The engine looks fairly good. If the engine turns over then the stroke can be measured on the pistons to see what the engine is.

There are liquid penetrant test (LPT) kits out there that anyone can use for crack detection. It usually is 3 can kit of solvent, dye, and developer. Clean the area well then spray the dye on an let it sit for 20 minutes or longer so that it can creep into the cracks. The dye is oil based and will creep into everything if it is clean. Wipe the area with a cloth lightly dampened with the solvent to remove the dye on the metal surface. Give it a minute or two then spray it with developer. The developer leaves a white powder coating and the dye in the cracks will literally bleed red clearly showing where cracks exist. Surface imperfections are more like blushes and not as intense as a crack. This would allow a person to find any cracks that are not easily seen. Should it reveal fatal cracks then you can seek guidance on whether it is salvageable or toast before investing a lot into a block.

If you know anyone who does testing and inspection for industrial piping and boiler code work they may be able to borrow & use magnetic particle testing, It still requires a cleaning but will indicate cracks where contaminants may not allow the oily dye used in LPT to creep into the cracks. The advantage of MPT is that it will show cracks even if the crack is filled over with crud or just sub surface. If cracks are machined out then followed up with MPT then it is possible to see if the cracks were eliminated or continue on. Machining smears the metal over micro cracking so it is not visible to the eye but it still shows up with testing. We used it to chase cracks in large pressure vessels. We would use a pencil grinder to gouge out the crack, test and keep repeating until the metal is cleared then weld it back up.

 

that probably is a crack you found. very common and nothing to worry about.

 

Thanks for the input! I believe I am going to get an engine stand and continue with the tear down process.

 

An engine stand is a good idea. A flathead is light enough so you should be able to get by with a "cheapy" from Harbor Freight. It will probably be cheaper than you co-pays at the doctors office if you try to do it without one.

I agree about the "part number" crack not being a problem; the other does seem to be a surface flaw of some sort.

You might consider flushing the block and then filling it with "EvapoRust" or a water/molasses solution and letting it sit for a while.

 

Picked up a 1000 lb. capacity engine stand today from Harbor Freight. With it on sale, and with a 20% off coupon, it came to a whopping $52 (including tax). Probably won't get to work on the engine until tomorrow evening. Will post progress pics then.

 

I don't live in Dallas area,but 165 miles south in College Station.I will be glad to assist you in the preparation to make your flatmotor perform well.You can build a stocker or a hot rod; both can be expensive. You gather up the parts and I will assemble the pieces( 55 years experience; built many engines for myself and others,probably around 30 engines) I do NOT have a shop, so therefore no employees or overhead, and can build a solid engine much cheaper than a "brick and mortar " business.You gather up the parts(I can advise you what works and is a good/poor buy at no cost to you) I only make money when I assemble the pieces you have bought;I DO NOT make money on the parts, the advice is free. 979-595-7324 cell Texas.

 

Many thanks for the reply and the offer to help out. I am very familiar with College Station, as I spent 1993-1997 at the University there. I will definitely be in touch as I have questions. I'm not really sure at this point if I want a stocker or a hot rod. I may get with you to discuss pros and cons of each. I do know that I would like to be part of the build. We'll talk soon!

 

I was able to work on the engine for about an hour this afternoon. I removed the bell housing, clutch and discs, flywheel, and oil pan.

 

After taking about a six hour break, to go to my son's track meet, I was able to work on the flathead for a few hours this evening. During the break, however, I spent about 45 minutes on the phone with Flatheadjohn47. He shared a lot of good information with me and offered to help whenever needed. It was a real encouragement to me. This evening, I put the engine on the stand and was able to get all the pistons out, as well as pull the crankshaft.

 

Man, that is an excellent offer!! Guys like You are what makes the HAMB a great place!!

 

I recently befriended an older gentleman with a '36 Roadster. You can read the thread (and see the car) by searching "Cruising With My New Friend". He has a lot of experience with Flatheads. He came over today, and we spent the afternoon removing the valves, lifters, and camshaft. Three valves were stuck in the guide, and one lifter was bad. All in all, it went pretty smooth. I have some cleaning left to do on the block, as well as some rust removal. Then, I will be taking the engine to the machine shop.

I would like to solicit some advice at this point. My intentions are to build something more than a stocker, but not a hot rod. I am looking for something that I can cruise and get 20K miles out of it, but at the same time sound very mean. I am going to run a 4" Merc crank, stock EAB heads, and twin 94 carbs.

Questions:
1. Cam recommendation?
2. How much should I bore the block?
3. Adjustable lifters or not?

Any input would be appreciated.

 

Suggestions.
1. Take your block and have it baked and "shaked" to get rid of all the internal rust, sand, etc.
2.Have it magnafluxed and pressure tested.
3. Repair the cracks, if needed.
4. Bore block as little as possible.
5. Use adjustable lifters.
6. Accept HAMBER's offer to help you.
7. Also, ask questions on Fordbarn.
8. Hope you numbered or stamped the main bearing caps before you removed them.
9. Check and see if your 8BA has oil squirt holes in the connecting rods as this will need to be known when reassembling.
10. Use the matching timing cover for the distributer shaft length.
11. If you go with multiple carbs, the stock loadamatic vacuum advance won't work.

 

#11 above. Replace the stock dizzy with a "Bubba".

 

Unfortunately, I did not do this. Chalk it up to my ignorance. Will this be a major issue?

 

Pennsoil and Quaker state were the absolute worse, very high paraffin content.

A lot of the old oils were either no or very low detergent. So not only were they high in paraffin they didn't clean anything as they went. I have pulled old engines down that you could literally make candles from what was collected in the nooks and crannies.

Actually you want to put the rods back on in order too but it looks like you have them layed out, number them before anyone moves them.

The main caps are no biggy. get a straight edge and put the caps back on there are only 3 of them. Torque them and put the straight edge across the inside of them, check for gaps and keep moving them around until you get the smallest gaps or no gaps at all. This is probably a good time to lay the straight edge across the main bearing saddles in the block. You may end up getting the bores honed for alignment anyway.

 

You might try reassembling the main caps with the same rods and pistons that were removed from the same and checking the tolerance with plastigauge to see if tolerance is acceptable. That would be a long shot at best. Ask questions about this on Fordbarn. You will find help here:
http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56467&highlight=main+bearing+caps
Also. mark the connecting rod bearing caps before you remove them. If you didn't do this at first before you removed them from the engine mark them now but only if you are sure you put the same cap on each rod exactly as it was before you took the engine apart. Align boring the block and resizing the rods will correct these errors if your machinist checks things out first. Buy a good book on how to rebuild a flathead Ford engine so you get comfortable with all the nuances, terms and techniques. I am sure you will be fine, so don't fret. Also, put all your nuts and bolts in labeled plastic baggies.

 

I'm striking out regularly here!! I made sure that I put the rod caps back on as they came off. I laid them out as I removed them from the block. However, in a rush to clean the shop because our house is on the market, I picked them up without numbering them. I am learning a lot here as I move forward with this build. Please keep the comments coming. I certainly appreciate them!!

 

Well that one is going to cost you. I don't have a quick fix for that one. I have pulled flatties down that had numbers stamped on the tops of the pistons, you may get lucky and clean the piston tops off and find that they are numbered. Otherwise you just choose a place to land 'em and get it balanced. The factory balance was poor to none on them so it may not make any difference.

 

On the main caps, there will likely be witness marks on the block and caps that can be matched up to get them in the correct order, then mark them. Sometimes you can do the same with the rods and caps, but since there are 8 of each it's a little more time consuming, and more of a crapshoot.