Technical 20w-50 engine oil

Damn gimp, 'parlance'. If I hadn't had three years of Fran-say, I wouldn't have had a clue whatcha was sayin'...

Here it's 20/50 in the two wheeler, VR 40 in the high compression, solid lifter OT, 5/30 in everything else.

 

Yep! Works for me. I like the 15-40 Super-Tech Heavy Duty. Has the right zinc and phosphorus for flat tappets. I get it analyzed at Blackstone Labs in Ft. Wayne, IN.

I've had the high priced name brand stuff wipe out several cams and a set of rings.

 

Don't want to get too far into the woods here, but.... seem like so many people think that 20w 50 is the bee's knees for their engine. When in reality, their engine, and the way they use it don't call for it.
I find it interesting that some today's new engines use 0w-20 or 5w-20 for standard use.
I get the whole thing about new modern engines, closer tolerances rollerize parts, low tension rings, EPA standards/regulation, fuel economy ,bla,bla.
Just say'n.

 

I like the 15-40 Super-Tech Heavy Duty. Has the right zinc and phosphorus for flat tappets. I get it analyzed at Blackstone Labs in Ft. Wayne, IN.

Wow is this true? I presumed ALL motor oil had the zddp levels reduced to the point of making issue with flat tappet cams.

 

I agree about the viscosity of 20W50 being too heavy, unless the engine was built "loose" for racing. The 350 sbc in my Hiboy is an engine I built, and the rods and mains are around .002" and the hypereutectic pistons are about .0025", a little looser than I wanted. I use 10W40 Amsoil "Premium Protection", which is a high ZDDP synthetic formulated for flat tappet engines.
My '40 coupe is sbf powered and I bought it, as I just didn't feel up to another ground up build @ 78. The previous owner built the car but had an respected engine builder in Ohio to build the engine. He doesn't know anything about the clearances, and stated that the engine builder specified 20W50 VR-1 Valvoline. I'm very tempted to go with the same as Hiboy when I change it in next week or so, only since I don't know clearances I'm going Z Rod Amsoil in 20W50 since that's the viscosity specified by the engine builder. I don't much like to use real thick oils when they are built with the clearces I have in the Hiboy.

 

Yep. It has to do with the Heavy Duty 15-40 and 20-50 oils.

 

The 15-40 Super-Tech Heavy Duty is for diesels and I have read they have to keep the zinc at higher levels for diesels.
That's what I am running.

 

I don't have any diesels, so I run normal automotive oil. Seems to work ok for me.

 

Modern motor oils are formulated for their intended use and the proportions of the various additives are slanted towards that use. Among others, one additive is added as an anti-foaming agent.
Diesels turn considerably less rpm than gas engines, especially gas engines built or modified for high performance use, and one could surmise that the diesels have less of an oil foaming problem than gas engines due to lower rpms. So accordingly, you can surmise the oil is blended with less anti foaming agents in that qt. bottle and more of some other additives, such as detergents due to soot.
Put that oil in a high rpm engine and you'll get an increase in foam, and the bubbles in foam are air, which is a piss poor lubricant.
In addition, all diesel engines now in '07 and newer light/medium duty trucks and cars have a "particulate filter" on the exhaust which, like a catalytic converter requires that the oil have a greatly reduced content of ZDDP. So unless the label on the oil can cautions that the oil is only for pre '07 vehicles or others without a paticulate filter, you can be safely assured that the ZDDP content has been reduced as required by the EPA, etc.
Motor oil today is a highly specialized product, and the stuff applicable 10 years ago isn't necesarily so today.

 

Well my head is swimming with all the in put from my OP..I had looked around some prior to my post and Valvoline VR1 seemed to suit [suits a lot of people on here too!] and a lot of places carry it but they are also out of stock! I have been reading about Synthetic Blend and Full Synthetic which leads into should I change to either...My SBF [40k miles] doesn't leak a drop but my Crosley [4k miles] leaks more than it burns and in reading found that synthetic may cause leaks, I don't think really high zinc is a requirement in either...Looking in places like Jegs for different brands I find that an oil maybe listed for motorcycles but in the write up talk about auto engines, some were opposite..Then there is Glockner oils which can be a lot of brands, I guess a distributor...Arg..

 

just pour some walmart 5W30 in them and call it a day.

 

I'll go to Walmart later, they sell by the case? I couldn't tell online..

 

Just curious Jim, does your BBC Chevy II have a roller cam?

 

Me too, but I just read this:

http://www.cam-shield.com/acatalog/diesel.html

It's all so confusing...

 

I use Castrol 20W50 for summer oil and 10W40 for winter oil in my bike.

We all have what we like and we seldom change brands unless our brand goes away.

 

I use vr1 20w 50 in my 427 flat tapet fe as specified by my engine builder. Plus I dont use it in the winter. Been using it for years. Vr1 also comes in a couple other viscosity's. Use the 10w 30 vr1 in my two small block chevy motors. Just my 2 cents

 

yes, it does. I can only get about 20,000 miles out of a flat tappet cam on a big block (with over half an inch lift). So I switched to hydraulic rollers on the go faster engines. This is not a new problem, it's been this way since I got into the game 30+ years ago.

Still running the flat tappet in my 59 pickup 454, my 57 suburban (stock 350 with over 200k on it), and wife's Dart 340. They're all still hitting on all 8 cylinders.

 

Thanks Jim. That's good to know.

I switched to 10-40 RP for a while in the 427 in the bus and in about 7000 miles I had lots (5X) of iron in the analysis. It turned black and began to burn about a qt. in 1500 miles. (Flat tappet 250* 260* - .470/.475 lift)

It didn't take long to go back to 15-40 Super Tech. I even added an auxiliary bypass filter and it eventually cleaned up within two oil changes. Now it's back up to about 2200 miles to a qt. Before the RP it got 3000 miles per qt.

I know it hurt something because a couple of cylinders are low on compression. It still runs too good to take it apart yet.

 

Works like a charm for the last 40 years.

 

Non roller motors and new oils bad juju. Especially in a high performance engine. Poor in what you will and good luck. I for one am not a fan of Wal Mart anything.

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That would be " pour" to most. I went to government schools.

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OK, so there's a fundamental problem with that paper that's linked above. It treats all ZDDP compounds alike, and you can't realistically do that. 400 ppm of one ZDDP compound will provide more anti-wear protection than say 1600 ppm of another. All ZDDP's are not created equal. That's a big problem with that article. Keep in mind, they are selling an additive, their paper is geared toward directing you to buy their additive.

I asked earlier if anyone had any data regarding cam failures. These guys make some claims about how much zinc is required for various applications, what are they basing that on? I'd love to see their data. If maximum ZDDP levels are better, why stop at 2500 ppm? Why not make it 5000 ppm? Could it be that there's a downside to ultra high levels of ZDDP?

One other fundamental problem with all of this is the lack of understanding of basic lubrication principals. Sliding wear is prevented via what's known as "hydrodynamic lubrication". i.e. a wedge of oil that builds up at the contact zone and lifts the moving parts and keeps them separated. Anti-wear additives like ZDDP are needed only under low speed conditions, what's known as "boundary lubrication". On a cam, this occurs on start up only. Once the cam is rotating and oil is supplied by the pump, it is hydrodynamic lubrication that prevents wear, not ZDDP. So again, I'd like to see the data on cam failures where the blame is placed on low ZDDP levels.



They are correct though about both ZDDP and detergents being surface acting chemicals, and they do compete against each other for access to the surface, but keep in mind that oil has more than 1 job, it's not all about the cam. It seems like that is all anyone is thinking about. But you do need to keep the engine clean too, and you need to prevent deposits, lacquer and varnish. That's part of what the detergents are there for. They also are there to neutralize acids that form in the oil due to the heat and pressure of combustion. In plain words, detergents are good, not bad.

They are also correct about racing oils not being appropriate for street use. Unless you're into changing the oil frequently and rebuilding the engine frequently I wouldn't advise it.

Diesel engine oil though, yeah, IMO it's a good choice for a street vehicle. The viscosity grade is good, usually with a choice of 10W-30 and 15W-40, and IMO the levels of zinc are perfectly adequate for the vast majority of engines in street cars. Even the current oils for diesel engines with catalytic converters and particulate filters the zinc levels still average >1200 ppm. They have great detergency to keep the engine clean, they provide good long service intervals and resist oxidation, and they have great shear stability and maintain viscosity well. And it's that viscosity that is going to protect those flat tappet cams everyone is so worried about.

 

I will never claim to be an oil expert but I know what I'm doing to my engine is the worst thing you can and that is not driving it long enough to get it warm for the engine oil to work properly and to help rid the crankcase of condensation. I screwed up one engine in my wife's car by using 20-50 and will never do it again. Man was that engine slugged up. It never got warm enough and I changed oil ever 2500 miles which was 7 months of driving. I use 10-30 in my Y-Block and looking to moving to 5-20 because my normal trip is less than 5 miles. My LSR engine has the same problem, not hot enough running 1.3 miles at El Mirage. There I am using 15-40 Mobil 1 and not had a problem yet. Good luck....

 

Walmarts cheap shit - works just fine in all 5 of mine.

 

I have a customer who is a Hot Rodder ('39 Chevy 350/350) and a Wal-mart manager and he said their house brands are just commodities, made to standard specs.
OIL INCLUDED!

Yes, he uses 15-40 Super-Tech also.

 

It's all about marketing.

 

I'm also skeptical, however they do mention two types of ZDDP as one reason diesel oil is not the best for us, cold and hot formulas, whatever that encompasses. Web site says MSDS available on request.

 

I use Valvoline 20W50 VR-1 in all my performance motors - have used it in several road race Vettes with SBC or BBC - most with flat tappets. Great stuff, and sold in enough places that you can usually find a good price.

 

I think the makers of Cam Shield might have funded that article.
I have a 6.0 Ford diesel that revs as high as any non performance V8 gasser. So far, with the HEUI injectors I've gotten 186000 miles on it and it seems to have done well. There was a recent oil comparison article where the author was surprised that the SuperTech diesel oil performed well compared to the more expensive brands. I will try to find it and post it. I don't work for Wall-Mart and I really don't like shopping there, but I have a hard time paying more than what I need to. Diesel CI-4, CI-4 Plus, CJ-4 oils all have anti foaming agents as foaming was a problem when the HEUI injectors first came out.
I confess, I don't know whats best to use either and you can go nutz reading these oil threads in the different forums. Seems like nothing will start a flame war any faster. =]
Yes its for diesels, but here is the article http://www.turbodieselregister.com/TDR57_Oil.pdf

 

Arguing about oil is rather like arguing about religion I reckon. We used to have a petroleum engineer come by the school about twice a year and do a presentation . Boiled down what he always said was that it is not the label,its whats in the can,and a "synthetic" oil does two things better than a conventional oil.One is that it retains more of its lubricity longer and the other is it will survive much higher temperatures.He also said that given a reasonable change interval it didnt matter .Personally I use Castrol 20-50 and have for a LONG time.Reasons are I can always get it for a decent price and I know from long experience that it will do the job .I use 5-w 30 in the modern cars that call for it. I recall David Vizard writing some years back that if price was no object he preferred Red line.