Let's Talk Cyclecars

Ewan Cameron and Morgans.

 

To all of you a nice Sunday

 

Thank you Rolf!​

For such cold and rainy day that photo of father and kid at cute Red Bug (Smith Flyer or BS Flyer) is nice refreshment!

That is one of my favorite cyclecars - the base of basic light quadricycles: my boy-dream before I knew that such vehicle really exist.
Nice present for our Easter, celebrated by Christian Orthodox churches that still use old Julian Calendar - and the 1st of May at many sides celebrated as worker's day!
(in the same time nice traditional folklore and public, family holidays for many of us)

Ciao,
Zoran​

 

Don't know if this fits in with the thread, but this is my homage to the cyclecars. (feel free to delete if not considered on topic)


Still some work to do, hope to have it done by the end of August.

 

I found this picture in this article
http://theoldmotor.com/?p=153749

 

An other good link about cycle car
http://theoldmotor.com/?s=Cycle+car

 

Peter Stutz image from Switzerland. ...

 

No,it's not going to get deleted! Keep up the good work...

 

GN with AC engine. William Ingleton image. ...

 

Amilcars

 

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T Hudson,​

I follow your work at CycleKart Club, being delighted by genial idea and nice solution to use old tractor parts to get cute CycleKart - shall we say mixture of classic cyclecars and replica of vintge racing car? That could be one of the goals that started this wonderful thread?
Keep building and informing us!

Regards,
Zoran​

 

===========================
Hello Rolf!
Web-site “The Old Motor” always have excellent series of old-timer original photos with qualitative and informative information, but even more with interesting comments of readers! In a few, people talk about same dreams about simple motorised vehicles, some fulfilled in childhood or teenage years, some never - as mine! But who knows, maybe one day (just to start buying tickets for lottery) …

In comments there were questions about possibility to register such vehicles today, as was Red-Bug, or Smith Flyer or Briggs & Stratton Flyer... Simple answer should be – NO! But, (this time maybe positive connotation of ugly “but”) - there should be possibilities. In some countries such vehicles in original condition could be registered as “historic/collectors” vehicles, with some restriction of use but some privileges at registering offices and insurance companies... Such possibility there is in Swiss, but trough strict process of checking by old-timer organisation (thank you Rolf on information)...

There is another possibility: to build exact re-creation using (almost) original parts and components) or replica near to original, using modern components and parts... Here is in Swiss, again trough strict process of checking by old-timer organisation (again - thank you Rolf on information)...

Beside that, in the most of European countries, including Swiss and my Serbia – could be registered and insured so-called “light quadricycle”, according to European Union Directives for light motorised vehicles...

Probably that the best combination should be to make replica, but according to standards for “light quadricycle”, meaning: four-wheel brakes, road-legal lights and signalisation, power up to 4 Kilowatts (electric motors or Diesel engines) or 50 cc gasoline engine, speed restricted to 45 km/hour and some standards of weight and dimensions – similar for lighter road-going quads!

I think that more acceptable should be version without 5th wheel with gasoline engine – but with electric-motor and batteries - on chassis! To be local-patriot, maybe buck-board in a style of attached Swiss patent? Just to check if smoking cigarette during driving should be obligate?
Ciao,
Zoran

 

I agree, it would be relatively easy to get an electric version of the Briggs Stratton Flyer on the road in Europe, especially if it also had pedals. You could use the in-wheel motors and controllers from an electric push bike

 

That would be an Auto Red Bug, they used a Dodge Brothers starter motor, they look just like the B&S gas powered cars. Bob

 

Thanks Guys!

 

Some images of Marc's weekend run with his friends.

 

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... sometime it is quite difficult to imagine that behind old patents, crazy a little, were real persons, almost ordinary - as was Swiss inventor Martin Fischer...​

He really build prototype of patented motorcar, and in two variants - one as buck-board and another similar but with small hood/bonnet in front... Under hood/bonnet was single-cylinder engine but quite strange for 1904 - with sleeve valves: system that in vintage era was used by a few manufacturers of luxurious automobiles... Beside strange suspension, his motorcars had strange transmission: at first variable friction drive and later his special clutch-less gear-box!
And finally – steering by legs! Why not?
It seems that smoking was obligatory! (third picture from patent!) Therefore, hands should be free!
Later he produced "almost normal” automobiles, for decade-two! All models were named “TURICUM”, old Latin-Roman name for Zürich, his born-town...

Beside that, he patented some strange electro-magnets that worked without DC batteries or AC connection! The main use was for big classic watches and clocks (for walls, or standing types). Patent was sold world-wide, so must be successful? It seems that he used hand propelled dynamo to magnetise coils after some time!

Zoran
​

 

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BlackJack,​

As The Kid said, that would be replica of Red-Bug, if powered by electric-motor(s)... Some builders made new version of Smith or BS Flyer with fifth wheel powered by modern engine, but that could be too "aggressive" approach for road-legal quadricycle?

Electric power should be more legally and socially acceptable here in Bern... Single or two electric hub-motors would be nice power for slow cruising across and around town, at local roads - more pleasure than necessity for two pensioners... Hub-motors could be found in a range from 250-1000 Watts, and even up to 7000 Watts (Croatian product)...
I think a lot about combination with pedaling: good for recreation and even much easily acceptable. However, I couldn't find good solutions for buckboard with pedals, in spite of a lot of sketches made. I would need much lower chassis and/or much higher seats, with chains running above wooden chassis. Simplicity would be lost. As I see that - it wouldn't be Red-Bug after such modifications? Then, maybe better something in a style of Mochet Velocar replicas?
If use pedaling and electric-motor up to 400 Watts – that should be so-called “pedalec system” - with speed restricted up to 25 km/hour if use both systems, or up to 20 km/hour if use only electric-motor. No regsitration, insurnance or drving licence! Of course that 400 Watts isn't much, but that is twice power that two of us could produce for longer period? Later could add another wheel with hub-motor? (a little of cheating?)
My present pedal-powered quadricycle is heavy 52 kg, so if I managed to have less than 100 kg with electric power – vehicle could be practical for mostly level ground here?
We shall see during this spring and summer, after return from Belgrade and more testing of present HPV quadricycle...

Zoran​

P.S.: In any case - much modest than simplest cycle-car?
(some replicas of Mochet Velocar are shown)

 

Perhaps he had experience as a pilot. The ground steering on many aircraft is done with your feet on the rudder pedals.

 

rosengart

 

There's a fairly accurate recreation of this quadricycle in the AACA museum.

 

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Dodge,​

As Herr Martin Fischer lived until 1947, obviously that he survived experiments and regular drives of his foot-steered Turicum MotorWagen... The same, there was not any note about accident involved his Turicum and many of pedestrians, horse-drawn karts, bicyclists, horses, cows, donkeys - that could be seen at streets and local roads... He must be a master of such system (smoking habit is strong) - before it was invented for airplanes? Wright the Brothers just made few hops with their Flyer in that time and used only steering levers hand operated... Maybe later he was good in piloting?

Zoran​

P.S.: For me airplane system of pedals work in wrong way: to push right pedal forward/down and left back/up to go right? For automobile as Turicum, I would made opposite as kid light karts have? (off-topic)

 

Salmson at Brooklands in 1922.

 

From J-J C. ...

 

Guess that you don't have plate 1 from the Morgan chassis post, Bob---
Thanks for plate 2, in any event.

Herb

 

Herb,
Maybe it is not the right First page and not so clear, but...
Zoran