Rode in a fellow members 60 Edsel today that has some noise in the rear end and the motor is busy above 60 so probably has at least 3.50 gears,if the noise is in the gears could a 223 handle 3.00 or 3.25 gears in a big car. He would like to get the RPMs down some but I doubt that motor could get that car moving with 2.75 gears.
I just put some 3.00 behind a 230/ 3speed. Not great out of the hole but a lot less frantic at 60 than with the 3.73s 63 C10
Ive got a 56 merc pickup with a 223,3.92 gears,gonna change it to 3.00 -9", should have no problems pulling those gears.
I am not sure he will want to spend the money for a o/d so what will need to happen will have to be quick and easy and since there is noise coming from the rear end a slightly taller gear would be the easiest and cheapest solution.
I would go easy on the gear change, bump it to 3.25 at the most and call it good. Too much of a jump will kill the car's ability to pull a grade, dropping it into second gear will have to be able to get you there sometimes and if you gear it too tall, well.....that little 223 will not be the least bit happy and nor will your friend.
He was thinking about a 2 something gear but I told him I doubt that little motor could get that car moving with one of those gear sets,need to see what it has now and go from there. He told me they were not available with a six and o/d in 60 but the 58 and 59s had it so it could be put in but that could get expensive,I am thinking the axle bearings are the cause of the noise but since the original motor was very tired who knows about the rest of the drivetrain.
I'd bet that the OD trans available in '58 and '59s used something like a 4.11 rear gear, with the overdrive final drive being some where in the low-3s rather than the high-2s. The factory didn't put very tall gearing in stuff with low horsepower and moderate torque, unless it had an auto trans with a torque converter. Just to give you an off-brand example, my '64 Pontiac Tempest was originally equipped with a 215-inch six, it was based on the 230 Chevy with a Pontiac-specific 3.75" bore as compared to 3.875" for the Chevy but otherwise completely identical. A much more modern design as compared to the 223, it made 140 HP and 206 lb/ft of torque. These cars when equipped with the ST-300 2-speed auto (1.76 low gear, same as a Powerglide) normally used a 2.56 gear. The 3-speed manual cars used a much lower 3.08 as the tallest gear factory available. Big difference. Don't over-gear it. Put too much in it and it'll be a slug that overheats and gets poor fuel economy, don't try to second-guess the Ford engineers that worked to find the right gearing.
If anyone should know about too tall gears it should be me,when I stuck a T-5 behind the 235 in my 37 Chevy p/u I used a 8 inch with 2.79 gears and the motor did not like it. It ran good but what gas mileage it had went away and had to do some tuning on the carb so I bumped the gears to 3.55s,its alot better but found out those old motors were designed to spin over much faster them modern versions but there should be some room for improvements if not taken too far.
NOT SO FAST!! That reply totally missed dealing with the "noisy rear end gears" that raised the question of changing the rear end in the first place. The reference to engine rpm was a comment in p***ing, something that might be addressed while fixing the main problem. Ray
Actually, the Ford version BW OD used a .7 overdrive so the typical 3.89 or 4.11 gears the OD cars had would give either a 2.72 or 2.87 final drive when in OD. And as anyone who has owned/driven a car so equipped can tell you, OD was strictly for cruising. Any sort of even moderate hill of any length would require either dropping out of OD or downshifting. There was a good reason the OD was designed to drop out below 27 MPH; the motors of the day simply wouldn't pull that gearing at lower speeds. The same reason these had a 'kickdown' feature; acceleration/power was terrible while in OD. In a heavy car like a '60 Edsel with a 223 six, the absolute tallest gear I'd try would be a 3.25, and 3.5 would be a much better choice. But both will seriously compromise acceleration compared to a 3.7 or 3.9 gear. And the 'rear end' noise is likely to be a bad wheel bearing; the 9" Ford pumpkin is pretty bulletproof in 'normal' use.
Back in say 1960 everyone wanted a standard a lot of cars were changed from autos to standards. Next on the list was a rear end change because the cars were hard to get started from a stand still.
Maybe not Ray. he states the rear end is making noise. He also states that the engine is busy above 60 mph. Last statement says he doubts the thing will move with the 2.75 gears they are contemplating. Sort of seems to me that they know the noisy rear gears are going to be changed anyhow and are wondering the consequences of ratio changes. Plus the ***le of the thread questions how tall of gear would work So............. it didnt totally miss dealing with changing gears. Bottom line is OD with 3.70-3.90 works best with 6s.
If you think it's the wheel bearings, just fix the noise. FWIW, the 55-56 6cyl ford wagons used a Dana with 4.27 gears with the o/d, and I doubt they were heavier than a 60 Edsel.
Not sure where the noise is coming from but I do suspect axle bearings but if its in the gears then there is a interest in a slightly taller gears if the motor will be able to handle it.
You have a 3 speed trans. That means that the 1st gear cannot be quite as low as typically found in a 4 speed box. You might get away with a 3.20 IF the 1st gear ratio is at least 2.88. Which it isn't. Yes, it might-maybe pull a 3.20 at cruse...but 'stop and go' with the low torque engine means drivability will be affected because of the extra clutch slipping to get moving.
The '60 Edsel is really nothing more than a reskinned '60 full size Ford. The 3 speed stick that came behind the 223 in a Ford should be the same as the Edsel with a 223. 1st gear ratio is 3.09:1 in the six cylinder transmission that year. With the 3.56:1 axle gear over all 1st gear would be 11.00:1. A 3.00: axle gear would give an over all 1st gear ratio of 9.27:1. You might notice that difference. Now a set of 3.25:1 axle gears would give an over all 1st gear of 10.04:1. This might be livable. Just something to consider...., -Dave
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