Technical Paint problem/ help needed

Getting these little voids when painting. Summit single stage low voc, medium reducer. Plenty of copper pipe before water separator, second one at the gun. Tried more and less air pressure. Wiped down good with wax and grease remover followed by tack rag. Tried doing a light mist as well as wet coat. Driving me crazy, these little spots appear as soon as the paint hits the panel. Shooting onto poly primer. I'm outdoors and could understand some dust here and there. Any thoughts? Got a batch all mixed but looks like I'm screwed for today.

 

Still looks like oily residue on the surface to me!!!

 

That looks like water in you CA line. Hows the humidity today??

 

No real humidity today.

 

Looks like you may have gotten some sort of oil on it before you painted it. Degreaser will take most oil off but if someone happened to get some mist of WD-40 or other penetrating oil it will not come clean for you.

When I was still in the body shop with Linn (my close friend and business associate for years)my side of the shop and my tools were always kept separate from his. There was no aerosol oil ever sprayed anywhere near the shop just for that reason. no oil ever touched his tools.

 

Any cleaning options? I try to keep it separate but it lives in a barn where farm work happens...

 

You either have something in your line or something on the surface.

 

Linn used to get pissed off and sand it an hit it hard with sealer. I wish I knew something better to tell you. One of the other guys will know something easier, lost of sharp painters here.

 

Could be : water in the air line, oil in the air line, oil, or silicone contamination on the car's surface. Clean it well, sand it, clean it again, use Pre-Paint cleaner. Some wax and grease removers are petrol based, and leave a film. use a "last chance" filter at the gun itself. Last ditch efforts, buy some Fish Eye Eliminator and put it in the paint.

 

Fish Eye eliminator that's the stuff I couldn't remember what it is called.

See smart painters on the board.

 

Ok, I'm gonna track down one of those filters that goes right at the gun. I keep a dedicated air hose just for painting... Maybe some oil leak by coming from my compressor?

 

This advice.

 

Here's what I'm working on. Shooting the roof on my econoline. Winds up now anyways so hopefully I can figure this out today and try again

 

X3

 

Yep, you've got fisheyes. All of the above suggestions ( oil spray on the panel, oil or water in the lines... hope you didn't have a dirty stir stick or it could be right in your paint) plus it could be wax. Some of the expensive super waxes are almost impossible to get off, especially the renewers that promise to make your faded old paint look good again. I had one car that I washed down 3 times with water, 2 times with wax and tar remover, then wet sanded by hand and washed it down again with synthetic enamel reducer. I still added fish eye eliminator to the paint. If that's under your primer it will continue to come up in the top coats no matter what you try. Even fish eye eliminator isn't bullet proof, and test it for compatibility with your paint before you mix too much. I would wet sand it all off and start over before you throw any more money at it.

 

Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Some of the waxes have the modern equivalent of Teflon in them. Nothing in the world will make paint stick to teflon.

 

All good suggestions. I see tree's in the vicinity, another air-borne contaminant possibility. How about dust or pollen from that tin roof. Dirt parking lot. Slightest breeze &......
Might wanna rethink your spray area altogether and give yourself a fighting chance.

 

I agree with Chopolds, I always use fish eye Eliminator in my 1 st coat of paint and always use one of those plastic filters right at the gun. They are about $3.00 They catch the moisture that might slip by your other filter.Bruce.

 

Here's where I'm at. Got a new oil/water filter plumbed right after my old main one, new hose and fittings, new oil/water filter at the gun. I would say there's a 75% improvement with those things done. It's not the car surface because I started shooting tests on plastic panels when I was making changes. I've got some fish eye eliminator showing up tomorrow to my local auto parts. Does it only need to be added to the first coat of paint?

 

Been a long time since I've used it. If I recall, maybe 3 drops to the first gun. Should be instructions on the bottle.

 

Might want to run some clean reducer through the gun as well. Looks like your doing this out doors and there is an amazing amount of crap floating around the atmosphere. Probably Jet fuel droplets and god knows what else.

 

Just a little bit of a silicone based "anything" even near it will get you fish eyes.
Tire dressing sprayed next door, trans fluid on your pants, maintenance on farm stuff, garage door track spray, BBQ grill near by, mc Donald's down the street.

 

Just don't walk too far forward on that plank or you will be seeing stars instead of fisheyes!
Even people that have a clean environment or paint booths still are challenged to achieve the perfect paint job, shootin outside is a crap shoot at best but it has been done many times with success.

 

After all those precautions and cleaning you're still outdoors. I see a lot of sand on the ground, which over time equates to fine silica dust that's easy to get airborne. The temp change from the compressor to the end of the spray gun, sun beating down on the hose with cool air running through it, makes water that's short of impossible to remove or abate. The material you're using is no help either. No doubt really sensitive and solvent rich to keep it at a low price point. Knife in a gun fight...
Ok, you can win if you turn that buck knife into a machete. The gun filter is a good choice and they help a little bit. The longer you pull the trigger the worse it gets so adjust a little, maybe smaller sections (it is the roof of a van). The other weapon required, you need to also clean with water based surface prep. Solvent base (wax n grease remover) will not remove select water based contamination. Start there with either some really clean water or an old school form of window cleaner with ammonia followed by water. Don't use alcohol because it'll soften the base finish. Even if you can't see it there's probably some left in there and it's slightly sealed in by the 1st coats. Only a good sanding will get it to where you can clean it. Follow up with the solvent and then the tack rag, when the breeze is gone, you could be good to go. Fisheye preventer is a good last resort, but know this, use it on all coats, make a note of it in case it will need a repair because it'll have be used every time. USE VERY LITTLE. It's not a "...some's good more is better..." thing. The best advice? Spend the time and take it indoors. Sorry, had to say it...

 

Your wax and grease remover may very well be giving you the old fisheye. Wipe a spot lightly with alcohol and give it a test shot and see what happens.

Good luck, -Abone.

 

Ok, lots of good tips. I appreciate the input. A little maddening because I painted the rod in my avatar with no fish eye problems whatsoever. Using a different brand paint this time but don't remember if this is the same wax remover or not. Tried a temp paint booth in the barn last time but the poor lighting killed me. Even bought 6 extra fluorescent lights! For an amateur like me just building nice daily drivers I figure a little dust here and there doesn't ruin my enjoyment.

 

A lot of good ideas here. Here's a few that haven't been brought up. Alcohol doesn't mix with oil unless you have an emulsifier or soap to clean the surface first. Most thinners are alcohol based. I like to use "Awesome" to remove finger prints, silicone or oil spatters from air tools. You can get it from the Dollar Store or Wally World and be sure to rinse it off good with water. It's very cheap and works. Then you can wipe with a soft rag and thinner.

Another thing that makes fish eyes is too much enamel reducer, or to cold a temperature or too slow a thinner. I like a faster thinner to stop the fish eye on the first coat and proceed with a slower thinner to get the gloss.

I know this doesn't apply here, but fiberglass, polyester resin and plastics will build up static electricity by wiping on them and will suck everything to it randomly including paint. Even wind will build static and cause fish eyes. You can kill it by wiping it with water on a rag, but be sure to only wipe it once and leave it wet, so it doesn't build up static again. Let it air dry.

Also, fish eye remover is just a silicone additive. It works by adding more silicone to the paint than is on the surface. Sounds crazy, but that's what it does. It also lessens the adhesion proportionally.

Don't worry about painting outside. Some of my best paint jobs have been outside in the open air and light. But hey, what do I know, I'm just a painter!

 

I had a body a body shop for many years and used an old worn out compressor. I had a terrible problem with oil passing from the compressor to the gun until I found a filter dryer that used a toilet paper roll for a filter. It pretty much took care of compressor oil/water problems. Drain your compressor often and try one of these. Here is what mine looks like, I see they have a replaceable $10 filter but mine worked with a roll of toilet paper too. http://www.tooltopia.com/motorguard...intid=MOTM60&gclid=CJyV7Pzt180CFUdlfgod7TkHZA

 

I'm no painter by any means but my buddy, who is, was having problem and having to strip the same bare part down to bare metal several times. He was using all the chemical preps that painters typically used. I took the other half of the part and washed it with Dawn dish detergent. He laughed at that and figured he's be stripping that again too. After we both shot our half of the part, mine came out fine and he had to strip his, one more time, before he gave in to Dawn. I'm not a painter or a chemist and have no explanation but if all else fails....