I got the hot rod bug when I agreed to store my buddy's recent purchase - a 1971 Jaguar with a 351C. Then we got pregnant, so the motorcycles had to go, and left a hole. Over the next few months of searching, the "g***er" bug got me good. Earlier this afternoon, I picked up a 1962 Falcon roller for a measly $500. Good gl***, extra set of doors, seats in relatively good shape. Floors need some love, along with the driver rocker. Looks like it was the worlds slowest sideswipe. And my buddy wants to swap his 351 for a 350, so it works out nicely if I can find a 350 he'll be happy with. Now, I've never done a build of any sort. My motorcycle hobby consisted of buying customs where people forgot they should probably run instead of just look pretty. No fab skills or tools (yet). Mechanical prowess is basic. I can kind of figure things out as I take them apart. I also found out I can push my car a block down my street and run into the best ch***is shop in town. But that comes a price. A price I won't jive with until tax season. Plan is a 351C with a stick behind it and a speedway straight axle. Won't be perfectly period correct, which from the threads I've gone through will upset some people, as will calling it a "g***er", so I'll try to choose words carefully. Any and all help or advice is greatly appreciated.
Cool! There are a few straight axle'd Falcons around here. The things you are wanting to do aren't really that hard to pull off, although for a first go 'round I'd recommend ditching the 351C for a Windsor based engine, based on fit alone. Leave the harder to fit and deal with stuff for the second bounce.
I thought they were externally the same? The engine bay apparently has mounts for a 289, but I'm aiming for about 350-400hp to the wheels, ideally stout enough to eventually handle a 6-71, and that's asking a lot of that engine. Have any suggestions? Engine is probably a ways away until I get the cage sorted. There's a complete 72 Maverick 8" a few hours away for $100 as well. Could that be made to handle the power or would I be better off finding a 9"?
First timer? You need to do as must research as you can. The good part is, you fell in here before you started cutting things up. Good luck with it.
Oh I've seen what goes wrong when people cut first and ask questions later. Until I get to that point I'll just be doing small stuff like cleaning up some of the surface rust and slowly starting a parts pile so I'll have everything handy for measurements when it comes time. And thank you for the luck, gunna need it.
The kind of power levels you are considering would be better served with a 9". Nah, externally, Clevelands are a bit bigger, a bit heavier, a bit wider, and have the same bell housing pattern as the 429/460. Bulky as hell in these little cars. The 302 or 351 built properly would scare ya silly naturally aspirated, and allow you to play with the blower and such as money and skills improved.
I'll look into the 302. Seems like it would be more budget friendly with their abundance. My last car before married life was a '14 Mustang GT with bolt ons and e85 and it dyno'd at 420hp/385tq and that was scary for me in a 3500lb car. I'd absolutely love to see what that did on a 1000lb diet.
If you put a straight axle and remove the coil spring/shock towers, then you can put any engine you want in there!
Yup! BUT... Gotta make sure something else goes in to replace the K-brace and shock tower units to keep the front end from doing the noodle thing. The three of us? That's pretty standard stuff, and common knowledge. The first timer....?
That's what the 10pt cage is for. Bars coming out of the firewall and attaching to the front rails and a crossbar under the core support. Unless there's something else I'm missing?
I'd have to believe that you "get it" the forward legs of the cage along with the right stiffness of filler panels where the spring towers are cut out will keep it solid. Those blasted spring towers are what make a mess of doing engine swaps in those cars if you keep the stock or upgraded stock suspension. They even make it tight with a 260/289/302 in there.
Yes, and let's not forget a nice pair of subframe connectors to help keep it from bending like a banana, folding like a taco, or twisting like a twizzler.
Sorry I didn't get a better pic, but here is one I saw last week at the local weekly cruise in. Tilt front end, moon tank, fenderwell headers, etc. I may go again tomorrow night, if so I will look for it so I can get some better photos for you.
I'm looking at $1500 for a 10pt mild steel cage and subframe connectors. Probably over 2k if I have him fix the floors, rocker and quarter at the same time. Never really been a fan of the aesthetics of a moon tank, so I doubt this car will get one.
I think 351C bell housing is same as a late 289 / 302 / 351W not the same as 351/400M 429/460 pattern
as stated, do not try building a 351C - parts harder to come by - a built 302 can get you over 400HP which should be plenty of fun for a short wheelbase ride
I've only found a handful of threads talking about 400+hp with a 302 and most mention the need for deep pockets or a different engine. The car will be mostly street with a few trips down the 1/4 every summer. I'd like a low compression small block that's plenty of fun, with the capability of adding a roots without having to build a new engine. Is this unrealistic or what is the best way to get there?
I am like 95% sure that it's the bigger pattern, having built a couple of these things back in the eighties. Falcongeorge above would be the one who would know 100%.
351C uses the small-block bellhousing. Its the 351M and 400 that use the 385 series bellhousing pattern. Sorry, I chickened out, dont want to deal with all the guys that will think Clevelands are cool without ever having actually built one, so I decided to retreat. I will say this, building a hot cleveland is not something I recommend for a beginner, theres a lot of areas that will trip up a machine shop that is inexperienced with them, let alone a first time builder. If you really figure you need lots of power, and you are putting a straight axle in it anyway, I would actually say even an FE is easier than a Cleveland. More "g***erlike" to boot, and 390's are still fairly cheap, good 4v cleveland cores are generally not, unless you get lucky.
Whelp, slightly blew that one! My apologies. I knew that one of the 351 series engines were the bigger bell... Hell, I would second the FE, were it mine to do, too. Actually, that's sort of a lie, yes I would do an FE long before a Cleveland, but I'd probably dump a period detailed small block Chevy in long before anything else.
Ha! You got balls! I mentioned SBC in my original post I deleted, its actually a really good choice for a beginner that wants 400hp motor for a "g***er". Really, if he is putting an axle in it the FE is a good choice, and will make 400hp easy. A good 4v cleveland will actually probably make more power than a budget FE, but you will be winging it past 7K to do it, and its just not a beginner friendly deal, IMO. I love clevelands, but they arent really HAMB friendly. Its fun building one again, after a 25 year hiatus from them. They will make REALLY good power, but you are gonna wing the **** out of them to do it, and if you think HAMBers get upset about SBC's in Falcons, just wait till we start talking about the kind of rear gears clevelands like...
I knew a guy in the early 70's that built the coolest little street/strip 61 (ish) Falcon. Had a killer (HAMB friendly) 221 with a T-10, stock front, ladder bars and a 9 in. No mag wheels, just black steelies/M&H's, ugly little green toad but quick and scary fast.
Brand loyalty is what got me into this falcon. The first car I called on was a 56 Buick coupe, but it didn't have a motor. Turns out Buick engines are hard to come by and even harder to build on a budget. I'm not dead set on any engine in this car as long as it's a Ford. I naturally thought of the Cleveland because it's in my garage, but I do know a thunderbird with a 390 I could get cheap. Also found a stock bore 1991 302 block on Craigslist for $75. I'm all ears on this build.
Toploader. Bring your wallet. Get Jay Browns book, The Great FE Intake Comparo, and look close at the 410 and 425 hp 428 combos, you will basically be doing those but on a 390.
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