Ok Sedan Delivery guys. Here's what I've got, to me it looks like the real deal: mid fifties Chevy bellhousing with the flat pan hydramatic that appear to be a matched pair.
Pretty sure the Chevrolet truck Hydro would have had a "case fill", not an oil fill tube into the lower pan. It does have the 18 bolt Chevrolet flywheel/torus housing; all other Hydros had 32 bolts, IIRC, so that's correct. The oval plate on the passenger side, held on with two rivets, should have the info on it; you may have to remove the orange paint to see it. It will work irregardless of what the trans itself originally was in. There is some difference in the gear ratios between cars-trucks-and the different makes. Even a slant pan would bolt up to the Chevrolet bell-housing. I'm a little curious about the pressure regulator "cap"; there's a "bolt or fitting" that's been added. A way to adjust line pressure maybe? Have't seen that sort of shift lever either; something that came with an aftermarket shifter? Always thought it odd that the Chevrolet V-8 Hydro bell-housing had the warning on it, while none of the other makes had a similar warning. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
OK here are a couple more I cant figure out. This is from late 1965 NHRA records. J/S=17.00 "Performance Unlimited" 55 Chev, I don't recognize the car. Guessing a 210 4d wagon and 265/195hp for 3338/195 = 17.12 But it could also be 210 sedan, 265/180hp for 3130/180 = 17.39 Same story for the other J/S car, Wood-Oberholtzer, could be either of the above. Anybody know what car/engine were in these? And then in K/S=19.00 we have the always informative Noren&Mattucci "Chevy". So helpful. Guessing either 55 150 2d sdn 6pass 265/162hp for 3080/162=19.01 OR 59 Biscayne 283/185hp for 3530/185=19.08 I figured this as a maybe since the other K/S car is a 59 Biscayne 185hp. Anybody know on the Noren&Mattucci car? So as of now my database has this many et/mph pairs or equivalent: 224 Chev (90 of them are 55-56-57) 111 Ford 96 Mopar 11 Buick 38 Olds 104 Pontiac 5 AMC-Hudson-Stude
Found this from a few years back, excellent et/mph sheets from 1970 Winternats & current NHRA records. I am realizing that it's tricky to assess the MPH of a car from the "class winners" lists as they were often "brake light" runs. The "Loser" is usually good to use as they had it to the wood unless it was a red lite etc. Well I am working thru the pre-Winternats 1970 records, figured most of em out, stumped on K/SA=12.00 Oglesbee 65 Pontiac Either a Cat 4door 389/325 or a Tempest Wagon 326/285 are a good fit, or other. Anybody recall?
As you probably know, the class breaks were changed fairly often in those days. Also, horsepower ratings were mostly left at the original factory designated level although by 1970 some adjustments were being made. Do you have the 1970 class breaks (for example, K/SA = 12.0 to ?) and the 1970 Class Guide showing current horsepower ratings? There are other cars in the Class Guide that, when rated at factory horsepower could have been contenders at the 12# break. For example: A Catalina 2+2 2 door sport coupe, 389/338 horsepower with HydaMatic broke at exactly 12 pounds per horsepower. Or: A Bonneville 2 door Sport, 389/325 w/HM broke at 12.11 Many Eliminator pairings in those days matched up cars that were vastly disparate in their capacity to win. The rules required every car to be dialed in on the existing class record. Many class winners at any given event were unable to run at or even close to class record levels. In addition, there was a .1 cushion below the record that was given to the racers before they "broke out." Final rounds were run with no break out at all but exceeding the National Record in the final established a new class record. No additional certification was required since all class winners were torn down at EVERY national event. Cars that were capable to running below the record were almost always shutting off. Cars that couldn't run .1 below the record had no reason to shut off. c
Thanks for that detail on the breakout, it is awesome to have that detail in this thread. I've been using today's on-line shipping (NHRA) weights, pretty good except a few of the files have cut&paste or other errors in them. The 55 Chev NHRA file has errors in it for example, if you compare it to the 56 Chev they are sort of obvious. I do have all the weight breaks as I have the rule books & wt break sheets from 1960-1970s. That is, I have the *NHRA* rule books. Still trying to figure out *AHRA*, eg did they allow non-factory dual quads, did they use lb/hp or lb/CID etc. For HP I am just using the factory OEM HP unless I know there was a factor, a lot of those are covered here and on Classracer, Hemi, 428cj, big Rats, z28, 340mopar, a few others. I am starting to think that factoring was a factor in the demise of Junior Stock - the factories kinda started that game with the Super Duty, then the Max Wedge, then the "net" ratings to keep insurance rates down in the late-60s, so it forced NHRA's hand to factor some stuff - but that is a never-ending game. I missed the two you mentioned, the Cat 2x2 389/338 and the Bonn 389/325, I get the same numbers. Maybe not the Tempest as that would have been a Powerglide still, then again there were high stall converters by then so who knows. So that makes 3 possible engines, 389/325, 389/338, or 326/285 that the Oglesbee mystery car could have had.
1. As far as I can recall, there have been few, if any, changes in shipping weights over the years. I believe that those specs have been the most consistent elements in NHRA classification since I began to follow the system in about 1963. 2. Don't devote a lot of time to deciphering the intricacies of AHRA "Formula Stock" and trying to reconcile it with NHRA. I could explain it in general terms as I recall it from having participated in AHRA during the mid-60's but it simply is "apples and oranges" in comparison with NHRA. Some cars could be competitive while crossing over but most of the finer details of NHRA's rather intricate system were completely ignored by AHRA. For example, camshaft specs and manifold/carburetor choices were wide open and I don't remember ever crossing the scales at an AHRA event on the west coast. There was a class and a trophy for just about anyone. We could spend a lot of time debating the reasons that each system attracted its own legion of followers but that would be mainly a philosophical exercise and it wouldn't contribute much to anyone's appreciation of the finer points of Junior Stock history. 3. OEM horsepower was the name of the game until the point that manufacturers bought into the "race on Sunday, sell on Monday" philosophy. In 1961/1962, local dealers with some factory support were concentrating primarily on the top-of-the line Super Stock class. Dodge/Plymouth grabbed the upper hand during 1962 leading Ford, Chevrolet, and Pontiac to counter with very limited production light-weight body packages in order to compete in S/S. There were only a handful of trophies to be won in S/S and interest was growing rapidly. A trophy in the dealer's window is a trophy and a trophy awarded for B/S looked just like the one for S/S so what had begun as a small world began to expand. The first "tailored" car that I can remember in Stock Eliminator was the 1963 Dodge/Plymouth Stage I station wagon and I remember it specifically because one of my friends acquired one of those cars off the showroom floor. At that time,. the class break between S/S and A/S was 8.70 pounds per horsepower. Do not ask me to explain what was magic about 8.70 because I have no idea but the combination of a Stage I (low compression) 426 Mopar motor and a Belvedere 6-passenger station wagon broke at EXACTLY 8.70 pounds per horsepower. What are the odds? By 1964, Chevrolet and Pontiac were gone from the "factory wars" but Ford soldiered on and produced a truly dominating combination, the "High-Rise" 427 lite-weight Galaxy and put several examples into the hands of selected racers. Mike Schmidt's "Desert Motors" entry was one of those. That car was designed to run in A/S and A/SA instead of the typical effort to dominate in Super Stock. The first example that we saw was in the tech line at Pomona. It may have caught NHRA Tech off guard as well because after looking it over, they created entirely new classes (AA/S, AA/SA) on the spot, the additional "A" was added, and life went on. I cannot remember when the first horsepower factor was levied. Perhaps Gary Glover, Mark Yacavone, or someone else can provide that information but the domination of lower classes by either accidental/incidental or intentional under-rating of ordinary production combinations eventually led to the complex, ever-changing system of factory ratings versus factored ratings that are the basis of class racing until this day. c
OK I will treat AHRA as kind of a "very loose Superstock" rules, from hunting further I see what you mean about apples-to-oranges. I learned a little from another HAMB and other links: f1=multi-carb f2=4bbl f3=2bbl f4=hyd cam? any carb? Seems in F1-F2-F3 you could run any cam you wanted, and in F4 you could run any Hyd cam you wanted? So given any cam and your choice of intake (f1-f2-f3-f4) plus any carb, that's how I'd call AHRA "loose superstock". I shudder to think how AHRA handled porting, compression, etc. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/a-h-r-a-record-book.276693/ Looks like AHRA used wt/hp, for a while at least per L. Davis: https://books.google.com/books?id=G...EIOTAG#v=onepage&q=ahra formula stock&f=false Then went to wt/cid "later", whatever that means per Schild: https://books.google.com/books?id=l...EIMzAE#v=onepage&q=ahra formula stock&f=false I am keeping a focus on NHRA, just trying to figure out AHRA in the background. I can see what AHRA was trying to do if they went to lb/CID - get away from the factory rating games. But coming up with a fair formula gets messy in a hurry.
Speak of the Devil LOL had this one ready to post. As a backup plan in case the NHRA did not approve Ford’s Thunderbolt program, Ford built 50 Galaxie 500 lightweight drag cars in 1964; all were equipped with its dual-carb, 425hp, 427 FE High Riser. Half of them ran Top-Loader four-speeds and half automatics. Times were so much better than the competition that the NHRA made a separate class specifically for the lightweight Fords to appease opponents. These cars came with the heater, radio, and clock deleted, fiberglass doors, fenders, trunk lid, and hoods featuring the iconic teardrop bubble. Tom Stafford in the far lane with McCoy-Mills Ford sponsorship was a Ford drag racer for years running a Mustang Cobra Jet into the ’70s. Mike Schmitt ran Desert Motors sponsorship on a string of Ford drag cars. By 1965, this car was sold to Darwin Glasser in the Pacific Northwest, who ran it for a couple more decades. In 1965, the NHRA mandated that 500 cars be built to qualify for Stock class drag racing.
Dick Brannan brought his starliner to compete in Super Stock class in 1961 I (not me this was the caption with the photo) raced a 1955 ford with a 292 cubic inch engine with a single four barrel carburetor, a Pontiac rear end with 5.13 gears. This was just a normal weekend drag car until I met a gentleman by the name of Gus Davis. He knew more tricks to do to this engine than anyone I knew. He ground a custom cam, and tried goofy things like what you see here. Not all of them worked but there was lots of low-end torque for this one. The last few years of racing, the car ran in the low 13's at 110 MPH, and in 1966 it put away seven Chevys at the Winter Nationals at Irwindale. Look at those manifold extenders. Couldn't have been stock class right?
Too bad there's not a location/date stamp. I don't think that NHRA had an O/S class in 1963 or 1964 so I wonder if that might have been D/S? The 'bird emblem on the front fender suggests a performance power plant but I can't remember if a '63 got a "bird" for a 352 or only for 390 and up?
Back to the Chevy Hydramatic if I may. Do any of you Delivery guys have the starter/starter nose part numbers committed to memory? I tried several searches without any success. While moving some more good stuff around in the garage I unearthed a complete starter but haven't had time to check it for numbers yet. Dang honey do list. Thanks. Lee
See if it bolts on the bellhousing and the solenoid ends up down or out to the side I know the starter was funky. HAD to use Fenderwell's because of that
It's been some time since I got rid of all my Hydro's, and spare parts. When I bought my B & M Hydro Stick (used), the guy threw in a starter motor nose cone; I just swapped the nose cone from a standard trans/Powerglide trans starter motor, to wind up with a "Hydro dedicated" starter motor (as KickenAsphalt said, they mount "upside down"). Since the Chevrolet Hydro "flywheel" is a 168 tooth/14 inch diameter unit, I wonder if a block mounted starter could be used/adapted? That would mean having to use a 57 on block that has the provision for a block mounted starter motor. I'm guessing it would work, but like the bell-housing for a standard trans, and using a block mounted starter motor, the lowermost/inwardsmost starter motor bolt boss would have to be removed for clearance. Sorry, no part number for the Hydro starter motor. I wonder if Blownolds, here on the HAMB, might have a starter motor; he was liquidating all his Hydro stuff? As far as the warning on the Chevrolet V-8, Hydro bell-housing, just use some adjustable block/bell-housing dowels to degree it in. Why the warning was on Chevrolet bell-housings, but not on any of the other makes also using the Hydro, who knows? I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
Way back on pg98 post2915 but I just found it, the July 66 records sheets. I think I figured them all out or at least close. One that I cant find at all: D/SA=10.60 Wendell Fowler "Chev" at 13.14 Searched everywhere, no info. Anybody recall the year/model/engine? Other points of interest: The 64 Gal 427/425 way down in C/SA, wow. First of all you couldn't EVER get a solid Ford 427 with an auto trans but fair enough I guess. More strange was the NHRA weight: 4046/425 = 9.87 = C/SA=9.50 Strange thing is, NHRA says the 390 Gal, same model, weighs 3792 lb. The 390 intake has an iron intake which adds almost 60 lb, more than offsetting the added 25-30 lb due to the 427's long iron exhaust. So the 427 Gal should be LIGHTER. Instead NHRA weight is 254 lb HEAVIER. 4046 is just about what those 427 Gal cars weighed when you drove it out of the dealer's showroom, including deadener, radio, floormats, and 1/4 tank of gas. I guess NHRA just wanted the car in the 9.50 class ?? I think I figured out the 57 Fords - there is no NHRA sheet for 1957 Ford so I got shipping weights from "Encyclopedia of American Cars". If I add 150 lb to all those listed weights (they are only given for the 6cyl engine), then all the 57 312/300 Fords I can find line up with the class they ran in. I cant find any pre-1960 FoMoCo cars of any kind for NHRA ET/MPH data, except for a couple flatheads. EDIT well ok Loudbang's 55 Ford 292/198 posted today is the 1st one! Thanks for any hints on the Wendell Fowler D/SA "Chevy".
I think that's a 64 FAIRLANE? Camera angle is a little funny, but I've worked on so many 63-64 Galaxies the body just didn't look right. The Fairlane was still pretty heavy so ran D/S with the 289/271 Hipo. I actually have one of those 289/271 HiPo Fairlane carburetors. It doesn't run any faster than my other 4100 Autolites but it's nice eye candy knowing the car it came on.
The photo is of Otis Isom from Greenwood, IN and taken at the 1963 Nationals in Indy. His 1963 Ford Galaxie ran D/S and was powered by a 390/330 horsepower Police Interceptor engine with solid lifters.
Yes I can see now it' a Gal, just a funny camera angle. I grew up riding in the back seat of our family 390/330 Merc. I never see any timeslips on 390/330 cars, I wonder how Isom's car did in ET/MPH?
I found info that George Chaltin ( A/S )was so impressed with the '57 Ford Skyliner at the Chicago Auto Show, that he ordered a 312/300 "F" code '57 Retractable, 3 speed stick to go drag racing. The car is restored and resides in the Pacific northwest the last I knew.
Nope. Nobody bought any starters, even when listed at just $15 each, so I scrapped a big pile of them.... sorry I cannot help now.
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