History Traction in a Pre-Slick, Drag-Strip, World

By far and away, my favorite era, whether on the Hot Rod or Custom side of the house, seems to be that sliver of brilliance between the end of WWII and when hot rodding came into maturity as a professional enterprise, sometime in the late '50s.

Both of the cars I am building, and showing within these confines, fall nicely into the late-40s to early-50's period-correct camp, and I was happy with the prospect of enjoying them as street cars.

That is, until I took my '39 Ford to the drag strip last year.

Now, the ol' girl was far from fast, but then again, she wasn't the lumbering barge that everyone expects a flathead powered, fat-fendered, sedan should be. I want to go faster, but I don't want to pretend that my '40s-period-correct car is anything but what it is. And that got me thinking, how did these guys go fast in a world of 'fragile' gear boxes, 'weak' differentials, and without slicks out back.

I'm hoping this thread will hit three goals:

1. Show us pictures of early street/strip (or strip only) cars, from the post war period to showcase what these guys were doing for traction.
2. Get into the technical aspects of getting your car to perform on the strip with a 'period' deficit of traction. Short tire? Tall tire? Fat tire? Gears, tune, prep, etc...
3. Show us what guys like me can do, with products available right now, to get the look, and results, when we line up at Billetproof, the Hot Rod Dirt Drags, or other events frequented by like minded, miscreants.

 

I'll start off with some pictures...

 

And here's what got me thinking about this topic...


That's my Tudor drying out her right rear 600-16. On the 1/8 mile strip, she put down consistent low-11 second ETs at last year's Billetproof Drags. Not blistering by any stretch, but not embarr***ing either. I feel that she's got another second in her if I can get her to launch without turning only a single tire into smoke, and I hold up my end of the bargain at the helm.

First, I thought slicks. But everyone said I was dumb, and my banjo would detonate at the mere suggestion. So, then I thought a taller tire, like a 750-16. Because hot rods have big n' littles, or something like that. But what about gearing then? After all, I only really frequent an 1/8 mile strip. So, then I thought how about a short, but fat, tire like a 700-16. But maybe its more in the rear suspension, that axle sure likes to wallow around back there. Or, do I want it soft for weight-transfer. Heck I dunno...

Whatcha got HAMB?

 

Been a long time since I had a car with a banjo rear or a flathead! But I still remember all the axles, axle keys and transmissions I R&R'd back inna day! If you get too much traction you're gonna have the same problem and nowadays those parts are a lot harder to find and pay for than it was back in the 50s-60s when the going rate for a complete rear axle ***y. or trans was around $25-35 in most junk yards of the day. Still remember spending Thanksgiving. day under my Deuce installing a transmission. Had to have it to get to work the next day!!
If there any kind of limited slip short of a locked axle available for a banjo rear, I'm not aware of it, but to me that's at least a way to get both wheels pulling

 

Original text lifted from the net.

Hard to believe that today's Top Fuelers evolved from this; from its whitewall tires to its Rat Fink-like shifter placement, I really dig this car.


A couple of engines, four tires, a little extra tubing, a welder,
and there's little that early drag racers couldn't -- and didn't -- try




Ken Miller, an engineer by trade, built this car, dubbed the Tiller Miller because it featured tiller-style steering using a motorcycle-style front end. The two Pontiac engines were connected in the middle to a one-ton Ford rear end that Miller had fabricated with two pinions, one in each direction. The car, which ran around 1960, only made a few p***es, according to his friend Ron Johnson, due to oiling problems with the rear engine that led to failure. Miller simply unbolted the rear ch***is/motor ***embly and ran the car with one engine.

 

Right? I love the hair-brained ingenuity. Especially when it, apparently, worked for the time.

Yikes, is that a split rim truck wheel?

Trim Rings?

 

Hi. Back in the late 50 as a teenager with a 39 ford coupe & a 55 Chevy 265 slightly warmed engine it along with Zephyr gears and a Columbia rear end at 444 ratio & out of money what I ran on the rear was 650 16 Firestone Town & Country mud & snow tires. A little bit wider tread than stock but with that big flat staggered snow tread they gripped like crazy on the Asphalt. Po Boy slicks of the time for me.
Jimmie

 

Pretty much the same here in Maine. Bald retread snow tires had lots of surface area and soft tread compound...and they were free! 8.20 x 15s seemed to be the local favorite.

But be careful that you don't hook up too good! A little spin when you launch will take the shock load off the differential, axles and keys. You may not go quite as fast, but at least you'll be able to drive home!

 

Atlas 'Bucron" tires from E**on stations were very popular before the Inglewoods or Casler slicks came on the scene

 

Yep
This is the point where the slope begins to get slippery and equally expensive.

 

Rain....
I have studied thousands of drag strip pictures and watched every old black and white 8mm film I can come across for years.
Many things were different then verses now, as I'm certain that you are aware of. Without getting in to all of that.....

Most all spun the tires, some less than others, as seen by the evidence of the whisper of smoke in still photos.

Without writing a book, I would suggest that if you are serious about wanting quicker E.T.s ( compared to ? ) that you install a 4.44 gear in the rear. This gear will reduce the fun factor of rolling down the highways, but will quicken up the car.

Or .... learn how to controllably "slip-the-clutch" on the launch and you WILL reduce your E.T.

 

now trying to be gentle with the drivetrain to be able to preserve it was not on the minds of many guys in the early days of drag racing. like has been stated above the parts needed were fairly accessible & cheap. story after of destroying rearends, transmissions & motors prove this. put a nitrous stage 1 kit on and push the ****on after launching

 

I had some Bucrons in the 60's,grip like glue but danger on wet pavement.

 

what Glen said....knowing your machine and the it's limits were the game....slipping out to save it at the end often won the race....a lot broke at the line....

 

There is no subs***ute for knowing your machine. That's certain. I do put my car to work, but I'm still slowly learning the limits.

On launch, I was easing the clutch, rather than dropping it, but that was more out of uncertainty and attempted driveline preservation. Good to hear that I'm not alone there.

I'm not afraid of breaking stuff, as I have am***ed a decent collection of spares, but I don't want to be needlessly swapping banjos and clusters because of bad setup and bad technique.

I'm mainly trying to start a discussion looking for some middle ground for myself and others that want to enjoy their period builds as much as possible on the occasional trip to the drag strip.

We spend so much time, effort, and money trying to make our cars look like they 'could have been' strip cars back in the day. I'd like to think that my cars should perform like they look, even if I'm only racing against some numbers printed in an old little-pages article.

 

@AHotRod brings up many good points and his comment on gearing gets to the point that really got me thinking about starting this thread.

Backing up a bit; I'm currently on the other side of the world working for Uncle Sam, but I should be home with just enough time to prep my car for this year's Billetproof Drags. And like many people with projects on my mind, I'm trying to put together a to-do list that I can actually accomplish with the limited time and funds that I'll have available upon my return home.

My '39 Ford Deluxe Tudor is pretty set in the power department. Its a 59A running a **** 286 rotating ***embly (bored to match), Schneider 270F cam, Edelbrock Slingshot with dual 97s, Edelbrock 64cc heads, and a lightened flywheel. All this is channeled through a stock '39 Box and a Banjo with 3.78's. While a bit high-strung, she's my daily driver (really), and she kinda needs to stay that way, but I have visions of Don Montgomery, Bob Callahan, and Chuck Manning running their show -and- go customs on street and strip.



Power not being the problem, the easiest way seems to be traction and final drive ratio. Tires and rear suspension. The 8-year-old in me said just get the biggest, tallest tire that would fit under the rear fenders. However, the part of me that knows how to do a math problem says that a short tire is probably best, at least on a short 1/8-mile strip. Or is it?

An online ratio calculator shows that with my 28" Tire, in 3rd gear, and with a 3.78 Rear, I will be turning 2720 RPM at 60 mph. By going to a 30" tire, it shows that I effectively change the final rear end into a 3.52 ratio, or a 3.30 for a 32" tire.

As it is, my car seems to pull hard in second gear until just before the finish line (maybe 50 feet), then it apparently comes off the cam and starts to nose dive. I'm not sure that shifting up would net me any time, verses the time lost in the shift to third. By gearing up (i.e. Bigger tire), I feel that this is going to leave me in the power band longer and give me longer legs at the big end (if I do take it to a 1/4 mile strip), but at the expense of initial acceleration.

 

So here's where we get into the theoretical, verses what is available, and on the market today. I wanted to get some hard data on what myself and others have available for rolling stock. Here's a list of tires available today that check off the period-correct appearance and construction boxes as well as fitting on period-correct wheel sizes and widths (starting with 16"):

Firestone (Coker) 600-16
- Overall Diameter: 28.56"
- Tread Width: 4.63"
- Construction: 4-Ply Bias

Lester 600-16
- Overall Diameter: 28.40"
- Tread Width: 4.40"
- Construction: 6-Ply Bias

Goodyear 600-16
- Overall Diameter: 28.53"
- Tread Width: 4.50"
- Construction: 4-Ply Bias

Blockley Racing (Lucas) 600-16
- Overall Diameter: 28.00"
- Tread Width: 5.01"
- Construction: ?-Ply Bias

General Jet Air (Lucas) 600-16
- Overall Diameter: 28.50"
- Tread Width: 4.42"
- Construction: ?-Ply Bias

Firestone (Coker) 650-16
- Overall Diameter: 29.38"
- Tread Width: 5.00"
- Construction: 4-Ply Bias

STA Super Transport 650-16LT
- Overall Diameter: 29.90"
- Tread Width: 5.25"
- Construction: 6-Ply Bias

Lester 650-16
- Overall Diameter: 29.25"
- Tread Width: 5.10"
- Construction: 6-Ply Bias

Garfield (Coker) 650-16
- Overall Diameter: 29.26"
- Tread Width: 4.38"
- Construction: ?-Ply Bias

Blockley Racing (Lucas) 650-16
- Overall Diameter: 28.90"
- Tread Width: 5.32"
- Construction: ?-Ply Bias

Firestone (Coker) 670-16
- Overall Diameter: 28.62"
- Tread Width: 4.75"
- Construction: 6-Ply Bias

Firestone (Coker) 700-16
- Overall Diameter: 30.39"
- Tread Width: 5.38"
- Construction: 6-Ply Bias

BF Goodrich (Coker) 700-16
- Overall Diameter: 30.60"
- Tread Width: 5.40"
- Construction: 6-Ply Bias

Tornel HWY2 700-16LT
- Overall Diameter: 30.80"
- Tread Width: 5.80"
- Construction: 6-Ply Bias

Lester 700-16
- Overall Diameter: 30.40"
- Tread Width: 5.30"
- Construction: 6-Ply Bias

Firestone (Coker) 750-16
- Overall Diameter: 31.00"
- Tread Width: 4.88"
- Construction: 8-Ply Bias

BF Goodrich (Coker) 750-16
- Overall Diameter: 31.45"
- Tread Width: 5.50"
- Construction: 8-Ply Bias

Lester 750-16
- Overall Diameter: 32.20"
- Tread Width: 5.80"
- Construction: 6-Ply Bias

STA Super Transport 750-16LT
- Overall Diameter: 32.00"
- Tread Width: 6.30"
- Construction: 8-Ply Bias

Firestone (Coker) Indy 760-16
- Overall Diameter: 29.75"
- Tread Width: 4.00"
- Construction: ?-Ply Bias

BF Goodrich (Coker) 825-16
- Overall Diameter: 32.43"
- Tread Width: 6.00"
- Construction: 8-Ply Bias

Firestone (Coker) Dirt Track 890-16
- Overall Diameter: 30.94"
- Tread Width: 6.75"
- Construction: ?-Ply Bias

This is just a start, I'll try to fill in some other rim sizes as time and motivation allow. If I missed anything let me know.

 

What about locking the rear?

The era correct way would be to fill the carrier with liquid lead. Easy to do and reverse able as well. Should split the load between both axles rather than all on one.

 

And soak the outside of the tires in bleach to soften them up

 

Unless the OP wants to seriously degrade the streetability of his '39, or change to a different rear for street vs strip, alocked rear ain't such a good idea, IMO.
As I asked earlier, is there any sort of limited slip rear available for a Ford "banjo" rear ***y?

 

You would be surprised to see how many dragsters were still running a Banjo rear in the 60's and holding up to some pretty good power.

 

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/forums/ha-gr.38/

 

Thanks @97 while my car is full bodied, and doesn't really meet the cl***, it shares in that spirit. A lot of good info in a Sub Forum that I had forgotten about.

Since all posts are better with pictures, here's some more...

 

Somewhere I have some footage of a T with dual rear tires, probably a truck axle.
My grandpa used to say that to go fast simply meant you broke alot of stuff all the time.

 

I'm a major early Altered fan for the last 50 years, and those, even with the early Bruce - Casler - Recap slicks they were spinning the tires primarily due to the tire compounds and the fact that the drag strips in those times were lacking in traction. This was the norm rather than the exception.

 

Well they didn't drag race in the '40s and fast is relative.

Even in the later '60s a street strip car that could run consistent 12s was fast.

 

From an old post, a quick summary pulled from an HRM annual. I think article was taken from a 1954 Car Craft.


Here’s a dyno/drag test from about 1954, excerpted from the 1955 HRM annual. Real numbers from these times are scarce, and even E.T.’s were rarely reported. Most drag results were strictly MPH.
Note a few things about these tests: They are modifications on an existing used car, not a full build up. They are entirely bolt-on mods on a stock 239 short block, without even a cam change. The HP numbers are rear-wheel ch***is dyno numbers, NOT flywheel HP. Onward:

The car involved was a stock 1940 Merc club coupe, which would have been a typical back-row-of-the-used-car-lot teenager’s car in 1954. The engine was a commercial rebuild, described as “in neither excellent nor in poor shape” with 12,000 miles since rebuild. The pictures show it to have a Stromberg and a dime store chrome aircleaner, probably giving a slight power loss from stock.

Stock with distributor freshly strobed and new plugs (H 10), it pulled 69 HP at 50 MPH on the rollers and turned a blazing 17.23 @65.47 MPH at the Santa Ana dragstrip.

Test 2 added a Sharp super dual with two 97's, stock except for .048 jets (I would think a bit rich?). This produced a 16.56 @ 71.01 MPH, power peak moved to 80 at 55MPH. (Power was tested at speeds from 30 to 60 in high, with practically all mods showing improvement at all tested power levels, by the way).

Test 3 was with the addition of 8.5 to 1 rated finned heads; They carefully avoid stating or showing brands, I would guess because they had so many advertisers to offend. They were R type heads requiring changing out the shorter studs. This produced 84 HP at the wheels at 55, and went16.07 @74.99 at Santa Ana.
Test 4 added dual exhausts and a pair of Hollywood Deeptone mufflers, used with stock manifolds. 86HP, 16 flat @ 75.01.

Test 6 added a Harmon-Collins dual coil, which produced only trivial gains over the fresh stock distributor.

And that was it for that issue–only modifications that an ignorant teenager with $5.00 worth of tools could have performed in dad’s driveway on Saturday. I really wish they had gone on to a cam and headers, but no such luck. Bruce.

P.S. Guesstimate those numbers into flywheel numbers, guess the weight (probably about 3300), and run them in standard formulas.
Results, while purely guesstimates, are interesting.

 

That's just what I was looking for. It's great since my 1/8 mile times (low 11 seconds by the end of the day) when adjusted for 1/4 mile ETs come right into that ballpark, except that I'm getting 62-65 MPH at the eighth. By some sort of logic, my quarter times might be quicker than the article you referenced. But then my car is further along with headers, cam, etc.

I know I'm really just bench racing, and against the few published numbers available from the time, but I think it's a good exercise. For me and the car.

Here's what I'm working with, third p*** at last year's drags:

 

I hear ya Beener. I guess I'm making my '40s build a early '50s car for the occasional weekend getaway.

I'm not expecting 12s by any stretch. But I'd like to at least put up a fight against other flathead powered cars as the opportunity arrises. Heck, I'd be thrilled with a high 15 in the quarter...

Here's my 4th p*** of the day. An inexplicable win thanks to a missed shift and a red-light on the part of the rail...