Let's Talk Cyclecars

off-topic as agreed, but the reference to 'sets of cylinders' in a straight-six is ... confusing.
- and note a tenuous cyclecar (light car?) connection in that pre-war, DFP's London agents were the Bentley bros., otherwise making engines for Sopwiths, etc.

 

BNC

 

Is there a generally agreed upon definition for a cyclecar? Engine capacity perhaps or rated horsepower such as England used for taxation purposes? Or wheelbase?
Matthew

 

The Burgess-wise bible on Amilcar provides good details about classification of cycle cars. Dont have it with me but I think it was something like 300kg dry weight for tax purposes. Bob will know.

 

I don't really know. I just post little cars. Some folks don't think Austin 7s qualify as a cyclecar...and others don't like Brescias. I just like little cars that migh qualify as a cyclecar.then those post wa economy vehicles from Europe....

 

BSA at Brooklands ,the timer is Fernhough.Looks like 4wd

 

1913 AC Sociable Runabout

 

300 kg's is pretty light. An Austin Seven tourer is over 400kg curb weight and the typical sedan is about 630kg with the Big 7 over 700kg. An Amilcar CC starts about the lightest they made at about 450kg and the more common slightly larger C4 is 580kg. A Model T by comparison is about 545kg for a early car up to over 680kg for an all steel body but they were known for good materials that allowed better design. Very interesting, as some little cars are heavier than they look.
Matthew

 

Lot of technology in that one. Would find the details interesting, methinks.

 

Hello Matthew,​

Here is definition from Wikipedia:

“On 14 December 1912, at a meeting of the Federation Internationale des Clubs Moto Cycliste, it was formally decided that there should be an international classification of cyclecars to be accepted by the United Kingdom, Canada, United States, France, The Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, Austria and Germany. It was also decided to establish two classes of cyclecars, as follows;

• (i) Large class
  • Max. weight: 350 kg (772 lb)
  • Max. engine capacity: 1,100 cc (67 cu in)
  • Min. tyre section: 60 mm (2.4 in)
• (ii) Small class
  • Min. weight: 150 kg (331 lb)
  • Max. weight: 300 kg (661 lb)
  • Max. engine capacity: 750 cc (46 cu in)
  • Min. tyre section: 55 mm (2.2 in)

All cycle-cars were to have clutches and change-speed gears. This requirement could be fulfilled by even the simplest devices such as provision for slipping the belt on the pulley to act as a clutch, and varying of the pulley diameter to change the gear ratio.”​

Such classification was mostly made for fiscal reasons of countries (less taxes for cycle-cars, maybe even simpler driving licenses), but also for international racing... However, for this forum all that isn't of big importance, at least that is my humble and personal opinion. If it looks as cycle-car – then it is cycle-car! Meaning: cycle-cars are merge of motorcycles and automobiles, in construction and prices. Most of manufacturers started as manufacturers of motorcycles and later return to them as the main product after collapse of cycle-car movement...
Some small cars (voiturettes, baby-cars), from before or after The Great War (WW1) were cheaper, or lighter or slower then some of cycle-cars, but was real cars in miniature, having water-cooled 2 or 4 cylinder engines, “normal” gearboxes, propeller shafts, differentials, good brakes, normal bodies... Famous Salmson and Amilcar, followed by many French automobiles in 1100cc class, were started as cycle-cars, but soon became serious and successful sporting automobiles. That was one of the most beautiful, most practical and most successful class – the best balance good for any use: town and country cruising, touring, sport rides and races, even promenade show-off...
However, more important than technical characteristics (limits) is the spirit of cycle-cars, their owners and that world-wide movement! British enthusiasts called such movement “New Motoring”! Even after collapse of it, they kept the spirit from twenties up today, trough many variants of British specials, used for all kinds of competition on asphalt or off-road...
Just to say: almost after start, british magazines "The Cyclecars" and "The Light Cars" merge in to one, covering both sides of the same coin... That was practical motoring for masses, but with nice spirit and often great fun!


A few members from this Forum, made modern versions of sporting cycle-cars, or are in process of building them: joy for them and for us!

Ciao,
Zoran​

 

A couple of Amilcars for sale on offer through www.PreWarCar.com
http://www.prewarcar.com/classifieds/ad202355.html
http://www.prewarcar.com/classifieds/ad202354.html

 

1909 Gregorie 80/4

 

The English made 4WD in early speed cars (midgets) before they were banned.. Were called Skirrows... They were banned as they would climb up and over everything that they came in contact with and in those heady days of speedway before the war, things were quite dangerous enough..

 

==================================

Hello,​

Interesting infortmation - never knew for Brittish 4-wheel-drive specials!

It seems that they were used a lot in Australia, even in USA?
Some more information on this web-site:
http://www.bsafwdc.co.uk/page21.php

Ciao,
Zoran​

 

Charonnette

 

Thanks for the info Zoran. Never thought of looking on wikipedia.
Matthew
An air-cooled flat twin Rover 8 a friend of the family owned.

 

Hi guys,
I'm new here. This Sandford I just restored is in the family since 1932, bought then by my 22 years old father as his first car:




I discovered this place through the "Amicale Tricyclecariste de France" site.
Plenty of beautiful photos here, some I knew already, some I did'nt.
Cheers,
Renaud

 

Lots of good info, but the machine in the bottom pic doesn't have much in common with the other stuff.
It's a whole 'nuther kind of animal.

 

Hello Renaud,​

Beautiful car and nice family story!
Great herritage jewel - enjoy in ride!

Ciao,
Zoran​

 

==========================

John,​

Probably it is - you should know that better as in centre of British specials movement!
But, what it is on that photo? Any further information, photo maybe?
It looks to me that it could have similar four-wheels-drive, using BSA components as Scirrow, but photo is not much clear and I never see anything like that...

Regards,
Zoran​

 

Welcome to the Jalopy Journal Renaud! Thank you for posting your Sandford! Yes,most of the images are borrowed from other places that you frequent and people you know!

 

... but not all!
Thanks, and BTW this is my father and the Sandford in the avatar.

 

Repeat?

 

All I can say with certainty is that it is a "Dorcas", of Gordon and Donald Glegg.

 

EDIT: The above is from the book "The BSA Front Wheel Drive Cars" by Graham Skillen

 

John,​

Thank you on further information about interesting BSA-based specials!
Mystery - for me is solved...

My Internet friend from New Zealand should be especially delighted, coming soon to live in UK and thinking about building some kind of replica of classic British specials...

Regards,
Zoran​