Nitromethane + Hydrazine = MADNESS!!!!

@Moriarity has the Turbonique go cart hanging on the wall of his garage. Maybe he'll chime in here with stories.

 

Gosh darn Phil. I just stumbled on this old thread. What a great read about the Glory day's. But know I'm not so sure if I want to ever try your Chili. Because anything edible with the name hydrazine in it has to be hazardest to the Glory Hole.

 

My brother was working at Grumman and ran across someone who was associated with a rival stock car racer that we ran against. The guy was a chemist and he formulated a fuel mix for the guy. All OTC stuff but it gave him an edge.

Many moons ago, one of my friends had a mini bike. We went to his garage to get some gas for it... no gas, but wait, nitromethane! His dad drag raced. So we filled up the tank with it. The deal was, he'd run it up and down the block and then I'd go. I was probably 11 or 12. He makes his up pass... the thing never went faster. The down pass.. still fast but with a blast of flame out the exhaust, it quits.

We take out the spark plug... not much left of it. Take the head off... the entire center of the piston was gone. Good times.

 

We take out the spark plug... not much left of it. Take the head off... the entire center of the piston was gone. Good times.[/QUOTE]

You needed to wire the chock so it was about 1/2 closed. It needed more fuel and less air. JC

 

You needed to wire the chock so it was about 1/2 closed. It needed more fuel and less air. JC[/QUOTE]
Oh man, where were you in 1966? Guess we tipped the can too far with 100% nitro!

 

When I was young and even dumber than I am now I was running a Triumph fuel bike.Normally ran 70\ 30 nitro and methanol.A buddy told me about this wonderful stuff he was running in his JR fuel car called hydrazine---- he had run a very small percentage-like 2% and had run several tenths quicker than normal.Well,I tried it and on my first run I got right in the eyes and blew the cylinders off the engine-they broke right at the base flange.I was covered with oil and by sheer luck got stopped without falling.I gave up hydrazine and triumphs that day and built a fuel sportster.The amazing thing is how casually we handled that stuff and didnt come to any harm.They say the lord looks out for fools,drunks and children under twelve.My generous buddy completely scattered his engine that same night.

 

you need to start a thread talking about those bikes and we need pics!

 

You needed to wire the chock so it was about 1/2 closed. It needed more fuel and less air. JC[/QUOTE]
Nitro makes it's own oxygen so yes.

 

Nitro makes it's own oxygen so yes.[/QUOTE]
It's formula has 2 molecules of oxygen CH3NO2

 

The Me163 used C-Stoff fuel (57% Methanol, 30% Hyrdazine, 13% water plus a potassium-cuprous-cyanide catalyst) mixed with T-Stoff as an oxidiser in a ratio of 3.1 parts T-Stoff to 1 part C-Stoff fuel.
T-Stoff was equally nasty stuff that required careful handling and special crew ground crew clothing of rubber suits.
T-Stoff was 80-85% Hydrogen Peroxide with concoction of various chemicals making up the rest including, phosphoric acid and sodium phosphate.

Great thread......great stories too. Love the green flame and hyrdazine rhyme

 

When i was runnimg my 65 dodge a guy came up to me and said he still had some hydrozine and if i wanted it he would meet up with me at a track so i could use it. I started to do some research on it and backed off. Seemed a little too crazy to me at the time. Looking back i wish i would have taken him up on it. I have done some crazy shit with my car over the years that would have been over the top.

 

Little off topic but related,growing up my best friends dad was in charge of transportation at Grumman. He was a modified chassis guy and always built state of the art stuff .
He had a built in pool and was always complaining about the leaves and mildew it left and the water would not respond to normal chlorine.
So off to the Grumman chemists who were always happy to help other people in management. "Go get some hydrogen peroxide and put that in your pool,it will fix you right up". So he got a 5 gal pail and poured it in.
Well when me and my buddy got to the house that weekend,his dad was hiding behind a tree,when we looked at what he was hiding from,the pool was boiling and foaming about 2-3 foot high and angry at that.
Wtf we said to him,he said that's nothing you should have seen it 20 minutes ago. It got 5-6 foot high he said.
It was 100 percent pure.
Went back and told the chemists,they said a few ounces is all you needed.
Racers creed,little is good,more is better.

 

I guess no true rodder ever has too much power and is always looking for a few more ponies. We experimented with hydrazine and it can kick up power by a bunch but it is VERY poisoness. Even with a full fire suit and fueler respirator type mask our driver had some unexplained symptons so we shelved the exotic juice and went back conventional. We had access to a pull track and sled to make comparative pulls and it seemed the hydrazine added about 30 feet to a pull which is a lot.

 

Burnouts? Throttle Stop??
when was THAT? Guys didn't do burnouts until funny cars invented them in the late 60's. I thought The Greek used hydrazine in the early 60's?

 

Scotty T I will have to see if I can find a picture of the Triumph.This is the bike that replaced it.I sold this last June when I retired. This pic was taken the last time it raced,I think that was early in 2015.If you are paying attention you will notice its set up for gas in this pic.

 

I was at Green Valley (mid 60's) when the hydrazine craze was in full swing. This is some really bad ass horsepower (rocket fuel). Regardless I saw a blower get launched "way up there" we didn't have blower restraints back then. I believe it might have been Billy Meyer, maybe not! At that national event there might have been 15 or 20 big bang T/F explosions, most attributed to hydrazine!
Note: PO is a colorless liquid looks like water. Very dangerous.
I read one time that 50% of the chemical plant explosions, worldwide, were attributed to PO and / or EO!

 

I have played with nitro propane...

 

Back in the day, it was normal to fill your cigarette lighter from the menthonal drum on the truck. One of the crew used nitro by accident. It was hallirous watching him trying to get it out of his pocket though I guess his burnt leg wasn't so funny to him.
Wasn't Billy Jacobs killed in the "Kid Goat" using hydrazine?

 

I worked in research and tech service for Dow Chemical (10 years or so) One more time:
Propylene Oxide is very dangerous, has the viscosity and color (or lack of) of water. See below.
Statement of Hazards:

DANGER!

Extremely flammable liquid and vapor. May form explosive mixtures with air. Causes severe eye and skin irritation with possible burns. May cause allergic skin reaction. May be harmful if absorbed through the skin. Inhalation may cause respiratory irritation and central nervous system depression. Harmful if swallowed. May cause burns to the gastrointestinal tract and central nervous system depression. Aspiration may cause lung damage. Possible cancer hazard. May cause cancer based on animal data. Possible reproductive hazard.

Just saying...

 

Nitro Propane and Propylene Oxide are not the same thing. Not that I haven't played with fire in my life...

 

Havent found the pics of the Triumph yet.There was a book in the 80s? Called "Triumph speed tuning by Stan Shenton.That bike was the cover picture.

 

Have some experience w/ nitro in my circle track racing days, used to run 20% to try to get qualified at the big shows w/ winged sprint car and experimented some w/ some in my midget race engines, had a few major engine failures, but not when I was running nitro and after inspection felt the nitro was not the cause. Can say I saw some spectacular failures from too much nitro, saw a 4 cylinder Chevy 2 type split the block about 3" from deck, lifted head right off, another time a friend was up to 30% in his sesco 4cylinder Chevy, you could hear of engine pieces bouncing off the armco barrier, majority of spectacular engine explosions usually were the result of tipping the can a bit too much back in my time frame 70-91. No idea of cost today, back then it was $15/20/gal, but skyrocketed to over $75/gal, shortage, manufacturing plant explosion and that ended my experimenting with it. Guys tried propylene oxide, but that ate the fuel bladders and fuel lines and do not remember any green flames described here, but I know what nitro and alkahol looks like, recently attended some dirt shows and Nitro use is alive and well here in Wi.

 

......

 

A video about "H" from the Air Force.

 

Big cause of contracting Renal Cell cancer, nasty stuff (hydrazine)! Worked with some unfortunate old time aerospace workers; before SCAPE suits the safety concerns were not known.

 

Billy Jacobs died in 2007, long retired from racing.

 

I was at George Ray's hot rod wildcat dragstrip in paragold Arkansas with my blown nitro 65 dodge awb car. I also had my sons jr dragster with us. The track had its first ever jr race that day. A local guy found out we were coming down with both cars. Wanting to win at all costs the dad purchased a built motor for his kids car. My son and this guys kid ended up in the finals. We were down a few tenths. What's a dad to do so I put some nitro in the jr dragster. The car could hardly be held back on the brake. It sounded great. The nitro pop sound couldn't be mistaken or the smell. If a kid ran a jr on nitro at a NHRA event everyone involved would be banned for life. George Ray's being a unsanctioned track had no rules restricting nitro in jrs so all was good. My son was 12 at the time running a nitro powered dragster. How cool is that? He had a huge smile on his face.

 

Tom never admitted it during his 40 15 minute discussions of the Surfers if he did.

 

I'm not sure how much this has to do with racing, but it shows what happens when hydrazine and a scavenger meet. and it has a few old cars too.