Hot Rods Let's talk Cadillac 331's, 365 and 390's

Adding this link to the thread.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/odd-ball-cadillac-331-390-speed-equipment.319750/

 

I couldn't resist. I know I don't have time to mess with it, but I wanted to look and see what was lurking under the intake and valve covers. Looks like the intake is cracked in the usual places. Looks like this thing shouldn't have any rust, it is all covered in 2" of old greasy oil byproduct.


The valve covers weigh about 10#.

 

Hope it keeps lookin' good the further down that ya dig! Gook luck!

 

So, after perusing the internet for a while, it appears that the only intake you can buy aftermarket is the 2x2 Offy intake. I'm not too keen on this idea, so I am asking you experts what would be m=the most viable option. The cast iron 3x2 or the 2x4 cast iron manifold?

I am not paying $4,000 for an Edmunds 2x4 aluminum intake. I refuse. 15 years ago you could buy this crap for $250. The "nostaligia" craze hits and everyone loses their mind.

 

I prefer 3x2 for driving, but both of those Cadillac OEM iron manifolds don't show up around my area swapmeets,

I have Edmunds on my Olds, but I actually like the iron J2 manifold better.

I refuse to use homemade tripower carbs, so I use real ones and had great luck in how nice they run

.

 

These Caddy cast iron dual quads come up a lot, usually pretty pricy but I got the manifold w/ original Rochesters and linkage for around $350 on Ebay. The carbs needed work but it's pretty nice. My car weighs 5000 pounds so I'm not worried about the weight. With adapters you can run AFBs if that's your poison. Just fab a linkage for your tv rod if you have an automatic tranny. The manifolds by themselves are all over ebay for $300. A lot have some cracks but if you use Crown Alloys 44-30 you can cold weld and tamp it with a pneumatic peening hammer after 1/2" shots.

The single four barrel manifolds work just as well, just not as sexy. There is a lot of finned stuff for these motors, headers etc. The 390's are pretty much bored and stroked already and have serious torque, (435 lbs), Even the 331's are pretty butch. I'm a big fan.

 

I know where there is an iron 2x4 here in DFW. It will need to be machined because the guy took it off because it wasn't sealing to the heads and he had a huge vacuum leak.

 

Not sure I wanna go down that road, right off the bat, but it deends on how much $$ ?

 

Heya, Roothawg... If You don't mind me askin', ...why the heck do You not want to just roll with the 4-barrel intake that You have?? Possibly in the future, you may stumble onto a multi-carb intake for a next-to-nothin' price, but until then, a quadrajet will deliver more than enough fuel to break in your rebuilt engine and You may be surprised at how well it'll work!!

 

No offecnce, but You kinda sound like a girl that has a ring, but wishes that it had a larger diamond on top ... Hate to break it to ya, but You ain't gonna find one for free haha!

 

I meant I don't know that I wanna start out with a known problem. I would immediately have to start machining the source of the leak out. It would have to be close to free for me to take on that challenge.

Everything I build, I beat on . Just planning for the thrashing. That's why I was looking at the 2x4. If I can't get a 2x4, I'll probably run my single 4, but it has the typical repairs on the bolt flanges that will have to be dealt with.

 

Ohhh... Either way, good luck with the rebuild, and please keep us posted with updates!

 

There's a good deal on the 'Bay right now for a tri power manifold, and one for an ok dual quad, just for your info, not sure you want to go down that rabbit hole

 

Thanks

 

OK, so I have a question. After reading this article multiple times, I picked up on something. They say that with a taller deck on the 390, that required a "wider" intake. This can't be true. All of the intakes will interchange, yes?

When Caddy grew the 365 to 390 cubes for 1959, a taller engine block was needed to contain the 4.00-inch stroke (up from 3.63). This pushed the heads farther apart, requiring a wider intake manifold.

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/building-a-torquey-1958-cadillac-el-dorado-triple-carb-v-8/

 

internally the heads are different but all '49 to '62 intake manifolds, camshafts, water pumps, valve covers, heads and valley covers are interchangeable. The intake manifold gaskets are exactly the same. I don't know what car you're running this on, but as the engines got later the intakes and carbs got shorter for hood clearances as caddys evolved into 5,000 lb bars of soap. I had to do some sneaking to clear my '60 Caddy hood with a '55 manifold and top choke Rochesters. The manifold fits like a glove, albeit a heavy glove. The starters change too, so you have to pair your starter with your tranny (if Hydramatic). The TV rod can be fabbed and attached to a throttle shaft.

I may get slammed for this, but to jerry rig my manifold that was a tad warped, i put a bead of high temp gasket maker on each side of the intake manifold gaskets and let them dry completely. When installed and torqued down, the cement was rubbery and squished down, sealing all around perfectly and has never given me trouble. ( but that's how I roll, I don't like to do things properly). I drive the shit out of it every day. I spend too many hours during my work day sweating details.

 

Quote Roothawg - "
So, after perusing the internet for a while, it appears that the only intake you can buy aftermarket is the 2x2 Offy intake. I'm not too keen on this idea, so I am asking you experts what would be m=the most viable option. The cast iron 3x2 or the 2x4 cast iron manifold? "

Don't really understand this comment, other than not all knowledge is available on the internet; one sometimes must search in more conventional places.

Offenhauser made a 6 x 2 manifold.
Edelbrock made a 3 x 2 manifold.
Edelbrock made a 4 x 2 manifold (staggered carbs).

And as mentioned by others, Cadillac offered several different 2 x 4 and a couple of different 3 x 2 manifolds.

Detroit Racing also made a 2 x 2, but have not seen one of these in several years. They are probably fairly pricey by now. The Allard fellows used to use these, with 2 Carter WCD 2-barrel carbs.

My choice would be the 1957 original Cadillac 2 x 4, as it will accept many of the rectangular flange carburetors. The 1955 and 1956 manifolds had the old almost square (3 3/4 x 3 7/8) bolt pattern carbs.

Jon.

 

The intent of my comment was that the only option still being produced today, is the 2x2. I refuse to pay 3-4 grand for an aftermarket intake. That's just silly. I'll build a Y block if that's all that is available and use my 3x2 that I have. I'm not totally brand loyal. A lot of stuff will fit in the engine bay of a 35-40 Ford.

 

Just an option, Vintage Speed makes a two-two to four adapter. I have seen just the adapter on ebay for $100. Might even be able to get two to fit on a 2x4 intake for a 4x2 look.

 

Ideally, I would like to find a Weiand 2x4 aluminum intake, but we will see where I am at when I get closer.

 

I read that article, too. I've been thinking of looking for a 1960 - 1962 390......More cubes, full flow oil filter, etc. However, I want to be sure that the factory dual quad intake that I already have will bolt on, without any problems.

I currently have a 54 331 engine.

So.......Will a 1957 Caddy 2x4 intake definitely bolt onto a 1960 - 1962 390? If the newer blocks really have taller decks, I would think that they would need different intakes. This is assuming that the outside dimensions of the heads are the same from 1949 to 1962.

 

Yep. Like a glove, Man. 55-57 dual quads, ones made for either Rochesters or Carters.

 

I want the Carter footprint if possible.

 

The carter will look like this
They appear less often, but if you keep your eye open they do come up.

There's a whole 57 Carter 2x4 set up on the 'Bay now
But it's $1500. There's no fun in paying $1500.

 

Thanks for the pics.

 

If the chokes are original and not broken.......dirt cheap. Note the picture is on the side opposite the chokes.

Jon.

 

It does have the original chokes, everything looks really good. It is a screaming deal but I don't think it's within Roothawg's budget for his project.

 

You are correct. I can buy the intake and piece together the carbs. I'm not a numbers matching guy.....

 

All high choke wcfb cores seem to have gone up a lot in price, early rochesters are still DIRT cheap, I picked one up at a swap last year for $10. I haven't looked at Cad, but I picked up a nice offy 2x4 for olds rocket last year for around $200, offy stuff is generally cheaper than vintage edelbrock, weiand, edmunds or Detroit Speed. cad stuff does seem to be more expensive than olds lately.
I would look for an offy 2x4 and a pair of rochesters.