Finally got the heads torqued down, hot damn. Question #1... tore my dizzy down to last nut, bolt and circlip. Can anyone tell me what this port is for. Looks like it has a vacuum line port. And how does it work. Im so confused. Question #2... what is the front opening in my intake manifold for. Looks like its a water port for something Statement#1... Happy Labor Day to all that toil and God bless our troops. They are special people doing an unbelievably tough job. I for one cant thank you enough.
#1 Vacuum for the vacuum brake as opposed to vacuum advance. #2 1st hole for the roaddraft tube,2nd hole for oil fill tube
I didnt think about a draft tube . this motor came with a kinda scoop back at the fuel pump. I am blocking the fuel pump opening and using elec pump so I should be able to adapt a draft tube the front outlet and oil fill in the second hole......do you know where the vaccum brake gets its supply. I assume its manifold vacuum not venturi vacuum.... thanks for the help.
Ron, You have a 49-53 intake on an early 21 stud motor. In the morning I will take a few pictures for you of the tube and where the vac. Comes from on a stock 49-53 engine.
thanks...hoping i can still use this manifold...considering a pcv valve on that port, but my motor is all new so not expecting alot of blowby so maybe the draft tube will do the job...thanks Ron
Can't answer your questions, but the engine looks great. Love the vintage snap-on wrench in the picture as well
thanks...got huge snapon roolaway completely full of 70s era snapon tools from my diesel mechanic days...glad I never sold them...in fact have tons of oldCummins and Detroit specialty tools that any current day mechanic probably would have no ideawhat they are, ha.
The brake drags with its leather shoe on a floating plate that is part of the weight track system of the centrifugal advance...it effectively slows down the rate of advance at full throttle, frees it up at high vacuum cruise. Vacuum doesn't exist in your old diesel world, I just realized! Anyhow, its purpose was to adjust the ignition not to clatter with pre-ignition on baaaad depression era gasoline. On modern gas, most flatheads are happy without additional drag there and so can pick up a bit of power there. You still need SLIGHT drag on the brake or the disc in your advance will float a bit and cause fluctuations in advance... I'd say run it out to limit BY HAND as turning it out with a wrench will likely pop the spring seat off of the adjuster screw. Turn it back in maybe 1 1/2-2 turns and give it a full throttle road test to check for any pinging. Bonus tip---you have a '37-41 distributor with either 68 or 11 stamped on the drive end of the shaft. The 11 advance unit was introduced in 1941 and uses the same slightly quicker advance rate as '42-48. It will add some extra power. Note that all actual advance happens by cam rotating around the central shaft...where that happens you want the parts extra clean and well greased. I too like the wrench...nothing touches my Fords except elderly Snap on, Plomb, or Ford/KRW tools! That port can be set up like a '42-8 Ford with a straight bolt based fitting holding in a sideways banjo fitting running to the distributor. Full service with no extra holes. Can describe if needed.
As usual Bruce thanks again... Thanks for the info on the advance brake. Makes total sense and will help with tuning...I looked at my advance plate and no numbers but the weights themselves are stamped 68. But Im not sure about the banjo type fitting part, where do I take my vacuum signal from. Do I have to drill the intake manifold or use carb spacers that are ported? I dont see a port already provided on the manifold. Bruce...its guys like you that make this site work so well thanks again. By the way, never heard of Plomb tools...I have alot of Mac some Cornwell and Proto, and of course mostly Snap On/Blue Point, all late 60 early 70s era..just like cars they dont make them like that anymore and I cherish them. There is just something about the way older Snap On tools fit your hand and feel.
This is how Ford did the job in '48... A port just like the one you have* (though that one is likely pipe thread) was tapped for a normal bolt thread. It took a special bolt/fitting that went through a simple banjo fitting. It had a bolt head to clamp the banjo (with 2 copper washers) and was drilled endays to its own nipple connection and sideways where the banjo sat. Banjo fed the vac brake, other connection was free for other jobs. To make one...banjo sould be either '48 Ford part or a brake/fuel banjo from speedway. To make the bolt, drill a hole in a block of wood on a drill press, drop your bolt in and drill it endways concentrically. Drill out outer end slightly, drop in a short piece of brake tube, and solder. Drill bolt sideways for banjo, get some washers for brake work. It could be slightly improved by drilling a new hole at center rear or front of the carb platform *It is on back of rear carb platform in the photo
Dang Bruce, I looked all over and missed that opening. I understand the whole banjo thing now. I actually have a bunch of these I used for motorcycle brake lines back in my Harley building days. I will post up some pics tomorrow showing the hardware, in case anyone may be interested thanks again Ron
Here is a stolen blurry picture of a '48 Ford fitting. Banjo goes right below the hex. The extra bulge above the hex is just a felt-filled silencer meant to suppress the funny whooosh noises you get turning off vac wipers...
I see...the banjo fitting then would be to take a second signal from the same tapped supply, kinda like installing a tee in the line.
Bruce or anyone...gonna finish up my dizzy in the morning, will set both points at .015. Any idea where I should set the advance using the graduated scale plate attached to the distributor...actually, any tips for setting this dizzy up would be helpful thanks Ron
Ron I think you should really find someone with a distributor machine to set the points and dwell/timing. I know it is really hard to set on the bench. I really like this ? As it has always been one I would like to learn. So I'm here with you and I hope the gurus can teach us both. Maybe a good ? For bubbas ignitions. He is a hamb member. Good luck.
yeah...i would like to figure this out. Im sure there is something out there. Ive set hundreds of points and screwed with a ton of dizzies but i am not sure about this one. hopefully i can figure this thing out. Id hate to have to send it to someone every time i change points and such.
I'm interested in this as well. I'll have to set mine up relatively soon. I've been keeping an eye out for a K R Wilson timing device, but they go for too much for me.
I run one of these " divers helmet" distributors in my '40. I agree with Bruce about the function of the vaccum advance brake. The flathead fords did not run a lot of advance ( a total of 24 deg. if I remember correctly ) because of the poor quality of gas available at the time so you can afford to eliminate the vaccum brake. I simply removed the leather piston completely. The small plate on the side with graduations is to let you adjust the initial timing although very little. I believe the initial is set at 4 deg. and you can adjust it up or down about 2 deg. with that plate. I adjusted mine all the way up to get all the advance I could get. I have high compression heads on the engine and no pinging has been noticed. If you wish to run the vacuum brake, then the vacuum line goes directly into the manifold for full manifold vacuum. Not to be confused with the later '49-'53 distributor which uses a special vacuum port on the carburetor. Last, I have used a distributor machine to set up my distributors ( I always have a spare ready to go) but if you don't have access to one, then the points can be set up on the bench with a feeler gauge accurately if you are patient. Then always check the dwell.
Well here we go...my first time dinkin with one of these dizzies and for anyone interested, here is how it went. Pics 1 and 2. this cruddy ass thing is how it looked during teardown. Completely disassembled down to the last screw and circlip and soaked overnite in Berrymans carb cleaner. Pic 3. this is after reassembly and cleaning...couple things, I found that putting a small flat washer under the points lock down screw made it easier to tighten after point adjustment. I also found if you dont install rotor during this stage the center shaft has too much slop up and down...installed rotor and slop goes away, so install rotor during point adjustment. Pic 4. to keep assembly from coming out of dizzy housing I installed a nut, bolt and washer to keep it all in one place. Pic 5 and 6. make sure both shaft bushings are very clean and well lubed. I also found that these small ignition feeler gauges by Snap On easily fit into housing and made adjustment a snap. I adjusted both sets to .015 and lubed the cam and point contact pad. Use dielectric grease for this instead of axle grease or something. Dont want grease and sparks flyin all around like a wild woman shits. Had to slightly bend the points at the point pad as I couldnt get the points to open up enough. It didnt take much so dont get western with them. Pic 7. adjusted timing to third notch from right just as advised by someone who probably actually knows what they are doing. Pic 8. found rotor tips were just clicking on cap nipples. I dressed the rotor down with a small file just enought to clear about .010 or .012. When installing new caps and covers, make sure you use a gasket, not only to keep dampness out but it makes your bail wires fit nice and snug as well. Pic 9. Tada.........now, if it will only start I wont have to come back and edit this post at a later date. Remember...this is my first shot at one of these. Im sure some of you REALLY old farts can find a bunch of stuff wrong, please let me know ( if you can still find your readin glasses and get your great grandkids to post on a computer for ya). The way I see, worst case, it just wont start.
Looks great Ron! When are you gonna get to fire it up? Let us know how it goes! Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Damn...just found out my engine/flywheel dont take a 9" clutch...just what I need, a 9" clutch and nothing to use it in. Im assuming this takes a 10" assembly.
Got a question for all you flatheads out there. My engine has the internal draft tube that vents at the front of the oil pan. The intake I have is ported for an external draft tube. Can I still run the external draft tube or a PVC off this port and still utilize the internal draft tube setup, both at the same time, or do I need to plug one or the other.
Ron, I don't know a lot about anything but, I think you still need to have an oil fill cap with a vent or air can't get in to be vented out by the pan vent, and I advise against the pcv into the carb. I can be corrected if wrong!
Yes I will utilize the oil fill tube and cap as an air vent inlet and block off the fuel pump outlet. Im still pondering the PCV valve as, from everything I can find, there is quite a debate as to install or not, where to install and on and on. Honesly...if the draft tube does its job, a PCV valve probably isn't needed. Ron
On my 8ba (49-53) in the coupe. I installed an 59ab Thickstun intake which forced me to find other means to ventilate the valley. This was 14 years ago and many miles. I understand you are trying to install an 8ba intake in your 21 bolt. Stay with me. I am going to show you the positive effects of running a PCV. This engine has the front internal tube exiting out of the valley. I installed a fuel line connection on this tube after welding the top of the tube shut. The fuel line ran in the valley and exited out a drilled hole on the intake after installing a fitting there and ran right into the intake near the Oil fill tube. Now a few years ago I was chasing an intake leak and removed my intake. I found my valley to be as clean as a pin in there. Now you can see how clean its running. No evidence of condensation. The engine probably has 30-35,000 miles on it. On the picture of the removed intake. You can actually see the pcv hose connections fairly easy.
Very creative...i will be getting the manifold back from the polisher friday...after I take a closer look at what I have, ill figure out what i need to do Thanks
On the PCV: Take apart any older engine and you will find sludge galore. You may even find that some of the sheetmetal parts, like the little valley baffles, are corroded even though they spent there whole lives in a spray of oil. You won't see any of this, generally, in late models. The sludge is largely a product of oil and water...water is the biggest byproduct of burning gasoline, and some of it goes down there in blowby. More comes in by condensation when car is parked. The blowby also contains all of the nasties from incomplete combustion and I thing this forms the corrosive content. Ventilation systems based on road draft, as in everything built before early fifties, never ventilated enough, and were probably close to worthless when paked. The cure is positive airflow through the engine, preferably combined with heat as in 180 thermostats to help motivate the water. PCV was one of the wartime modifications used to help flatheads live in military trucks and armored vehicles...they took the trouble to design and install a PCV in mid war, about 1943. Jeeps also had PCV. Why?
Got my manifold back from polishing and will work on the whole crank vent PCV issue next, clutch is in and ready to pull off stand and into motor cradle so I can wed the tranny. I may not be installing this set up in the sedan as I talked the little lady into letting me build a coupe so I will be picking up stuff toward this end, frame, banjo, radius rods and such as I can and will keep an eye out for a coupe or roadster body to build a fenderless hot rod on. On a side note my dad has a friend that puts on a show every year for drug and alcohol abuse recovery and wanted to be there, so he took my f100 and I took my Sedan and the Sedan took 1st and the f100 2nd place in the unfinished class. I almost never enter shows but it was a good cause and gave me a chance to spend some more time with my 81 year old dad....Good day and glad I did it. Again, thanks to all you on the HAMB for your input and help. Makes the hobby even more fun than it already i.
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