Technical 3 or 5 main bearing crank for street / strip banger?

I have a 600 HP 2005 Neon SRT 4 Banger Turbo engine! still never even been in a car. (10 years ago I was into modern performance!) but almost lost my drivers license! Now I get thumbs up from the police!
Would it be okay to put it in a Model A?
I'm sure it would be fun!
But to me it's not worth the time and money if I can't race it at a F.A.S.T. Hill climb or to ever have the chance to race at T.R.O.G.
Joe

 

Here are the F.A.S.T. hill climb rules
http://www.hotforhotfours.com/do***ents/Cl***es & Rules.pdf

 

Hmm, seems pretty inclusive and accommodating. Guess I'll just say that my Russian B is a G28...lol
Looks like I'd better start gearing up to meet those rules...maybe no roll bar ? Full faced helmet...?
Thanks for posting these cl***es and rules, sounds like fun. I'll fit my '30 roadster in there somewhere, I guess.

I can not see how Tod's NEW A/B engine blocks will not be allowed, after reading these rules ?

 

My Roadster is M6 cl***. I honestly would rather see or race Tod's new A/B engines any day, before seeing or racing against an AUTOMATIC trans!!!!!! I say WTF? Really an Automatic? maybe if you only have one leg or one arm!!!!!?????? I had to wear a full face helmet, it really ****ed! should at least
be able t wear an antique Indy car helmet!
Just saying! but I guess it's the rules of the town/city.
Joe

 

Guess you haven't met or raced with Art Moore. He is a paraplegic and runs a speedster with a 4 port. I myself, after 3 months of physical therapy, may have to resort to an automatic or sit on the sidewalk !

 

I think the main point is to come up with a "doable" build plan BEFORE you "open the wallet/pick up the phone"& throw money into "thin air"!! For some of us it's a "New Concept", but many of us have finally learned(usually the hard way) that that "expensive/higher quality" item is cheaper in the long run! (And 'used' parts count!) With careful planning &budgeting ten yrs down the road & still going strong, it'll seem like a "good investment"! LOL!!

 

Hm , M6.. Went back and re-read stats. Yeah, it says "ANY" A/B block...so the Russians aren't pissed any more..ha!
As far as automatics are concerned, I've known TWO guys who are without any use of lower limbs. Both racers. One just died recently of MS. The other builds some bad***ed Model A engines...that he operates on BOTH street/strip !
Amazing to me and I say, more power to him. There , but for fate goes YOU and I !!
Have you ever heard of speed shifting...LOL. That's what an auto does , no ?

And, you say 'not wealthy', by what standards ? Look around, as most guys can not even think of doing what some of us can do $ wise. Even if we do lots of the work ourselves.
I've come to the sad conclusion, that I will have to sell (stuff)and both of my built B engines, if I expect to build a 5x5 the way is should be built. I won't be happy, if I don't. Yeah, I could have bought at least two finished 350s then some, for what I've (foolishly ?) spent on one B. Fun hobby, well yeah, I guess...lol

BTW..anyone can show a picture of what kind of helmet they wear and what I should start shopping for ?

 

The helmet thing varies from event to event. really depends on the crew at tech inspection. One year at the Antique Nationals our helmet had expired so we had o buy a new one. We were told that the most you could get , time wise , was 5 years if you happened to buy one the year they set the standard.

It would seem that there are some confusing sentences in those FAST hill climb rules, Theyspeak of any block then it states FORD built T ,A ,or B block !

 

I use a DOT motorcycle helmet. It is a full face with a lift up wind shield. It was my first time doing a F.A.S.T. hill climb drag race. A lot's of people used the same thing, and like me didn't lower the windshield. Of co**** with sun gl***es on for a little protection being I wasn't running a windshield on my car.

 

Okay, You got me there! I have not race that gentleman you mentioned and if it is for a handicap driver then I believe they should be able to race too! But if they are doing it just so they can use the advantage of the Hydro glide two speed trans! (where's the fun?)
I know how to speed shift! (I did street race my O/T SRT4) Doing W.O.T. shifting just to keep the turbo spooled and not have it blow off when letting off the gas pedal!
You can shift an old "39" box only so fast and Yes I have done things to make the shifting easier at higher rpm's! (but everyone knows how easy it is to race when all you have to do is floor the gas pedal and slap one gear!)
I'm just saying!
Joe

 

Hey Bill,
Well, I went back and studied the hill climb rules again. Ok, I'm old/thick..lol
I get it now and it is not conflicting/confusing when details examined.
The STOCK CL*** is the cl*** that you must have original engine A/B or T.
The MODIFIED CL*** says ...ANY A/B engine...makes sense. So, Tod's reproduced A/B blocks will qualify for the Modified and other than stock...whoohoo !!
However, I'm still not clear on whether a 'roll bar' and '****ter shield' are required or recommended for my '30 roadster ?

BTW....drtrcrV-8 has given good advice that's worth repeating, i.e.- plan well on an engine build, way before spending time/money, as that will save money avoiding costly mistakes !

 

The auto trans of choice is the 927 out of the Dodge Dart with slant 6. For manual trans I prefer the 38 39 Lincoln zypher, it has a shorter throw. But I can no longer work the clutch.
Art Moore and his wife were/are very hard to beat, when she shifts the S10 trans in her car it sounds like an automatic
I think those items are reccomended. I don't think the new Tods engine will be legal at most sanctioned events.

 

I have a S10 5 speed manual speedo trans, it came with my 37 flathead already mated , The guy loved it but I plan to sell it cause I'm going to race it at the 2017 or 18 West T.R.O.G! I'm so glad they, the (OILERS!) gave me a reason to stay true to the era as much as possible! So a 39 trans with torque tube is what I'll be running in my 1934 5 window coupe.
Now about Tod's engine, I would rather run an American made aftermarket Block with 5 mains and paint it antique Ford engine green and argue that this is, (purpose built speed equipment)
I guess that's just me?
Joe

 

Re: Tod's block/heads: To start with: I've never heard of an engine "tear-down" at a hillclimb! (that's usually reserved for 'Professional-Events', like Bonneville, NHRA drag racing, or oval track racing), & when they start actually needing to do tear-downs at one of the 'Hill-Climbs', that alone will probably 'Kill' the 'hill-climb' activity! Tod's blocks & heads appearance-wise 'ARE' "A" or "B" blocks, that come from Tod with the necessary oiling & longevity 'mods' already done CORRECTLY. OK,OK, so they are brand new: I'll pose the question of : "SO WHAT?"" it looks like a duck(on the outside, at least), it runs like a duck, & it sounds like a duck....." Besides if it's cheating, doesn't that make any 'trophy' sort of 'hollow' anyway? I know THIS post will MOST DEFINATELY stir the troops, but There are legitimate questions to be asked here, especially if the owner is able to afford(or justify) only one engine for his build, or maybe we should 'break-out' a cl*** especially for Tod's Block based engines?? Now I'll duck for cover & see what everyone else thinks!!

 

Hey ThosD,
I have a really good B engine with billet Main caps already line bored with thrust bearings in the back, exact same engine/lower end I'm running! Except its bored .037 and is just waiting for a set of .040 over pistons and rings so the final cut/hone pattern will be to ring type and piston fit! I even have a few C/B cranks! (not drilled yet) but can be! I waited just in-case someone wanted a splasher still?!
If you plan on running a flat head or (any 2 port ohv and almost any 4 port! ). P.M. me! You are only like 4 hours from me!
I won't ever need to use it! (so I may as well sell it!)
Joe

 

I totally agree with your input/thinking here !
I would love to hear what logic and/or illogic would be used to deny use of Tod's blocks in hill climbs ! Re-read for fourth time, the rules. IMO, even a psychopathic pervericator would have trouble double talking the simple language used in the hill climb rules, eh That is....'modified, any A/B block' !

 

Speaking of three main bearing bangers. I had a 31 Plymouth that I converted to OHV with a '57 Ford head. The '31 was a no counterweight crank engine. I think the block had a flaw or something in it and I ripped out the center main bearing web at El Mirage. It still was running. The crank was flexing around so much it broke the timing gear iron cover and the belt that drove the oil and fuel pumps came off, shutting off the motor. When I dis***embled it #2 and 3 had about 1/4 inch more stroke than #1 and 4. Crank never broke. I got a '32 engine which was counterweighted. Used the same Crower rods,, cm and what not and ran it for years until the top of the block pulled up and off. Then I put the same crank and rods in a flathead Plymouth and ran it for a few more years. Went 135 with the OHV and 113 s a flathead. Crank is still good. Also a picture of an average '26 Dodge crank case. In case you don't think the Ply is good enough .

 

What RPM's were you turning at that speed?

 

To tell you the truth, I don't believe in a tach in an El Mirage/Bonneville car. Eyes should be outside. Not in the ****pit. I had 29 inch tires and (I think) around 3:60 gears. The clutch linkage fell out once and it went 104 in third gear. 2000cc Pinto trans.

 

While we are talking about '32 Plymouths. Don't forget that they came from the factory with full pressure oiling. And flash Babbitt steel backed thin shell main bearing inserts. Plus 2 inch rod jurnols. SBC inserts go right in. I have heard that Ford owners don't get any of this kind of thing. Odd. They didn't want it at FAST meets. I guess it was to FAST

 

Rich Fox: We'd get "this kind of thing" if we ordered the right 'set-up' from Tod! LOL!! (of course we'd need to 'throw a lot of money' in other directions as well, but that's to be expected!)

 

Thanks RichFox, musta been close to 5800 !!

 

people kept warning me about running a three main bearing engine at Bonneville. Seemed OK to me. The Montana Dodge Boys are doing very well with their five bearing Dodge flathead four. Think out of the box.

 

I have run a B block, C crank (drilled for pressure) for many years, on the 1/4 mile and the salt. I turn it consistently 6,000+ RPM, for a long time on full babbitt and B rods. Went to aftermarket rods and inserts in 2008 for my turbo Cook. Last ran in 2013 at 167 MPH, mains still the same babbitt I started with back in the 70's. Froze the turbo, now building a B with 5-main girdle and new turbo. Tod's block will not be legal on F.A.S.T. hill climbs or SCTA but you might get by with them if they look original? BTW, I have a Mercruiser (180 CID) engine for sale