Ok, let me just say here, I don't discriminate, I have a few sbc's, a ford FE, several small blocks fords and even a hemi, but man, if you think two flywheels and an intake bolt pattern variation make building a chevy "complex", you wanna stay WELL away from FE's...
I still can not figure out why some are afraid of messing with the sbf,yes they have been some changes through the years but if I can figure them out then everyone else should be able to do the same or has the sbc made everyone that used them brain dead and can not figure out other motors.
Fooey. The SBC is the best engine of the whole period from the death of the flathead until the modern turbo DOHC computer whiz bangs. They became the preferred motor (they were actually hard to get in their first years) for everything that did not need a blown 392 as soon as rodders found out what they could do. And, further, any one of them that is too new for us can be disguised as an early one easily. Any other choice is what needs to be justified, not the SBC.
Bruce, I was saving an honorary seat for you in our new club. The reason most of these guys blather on about "belly button" motors is they literally cant tell shit from gravy. Its easy to tell a flathead from a chevy, any fool can do it, but 98% of these guys that spew all this bullshit about belly button motors can't tell a 1-800-speedway 8BA from a gennie '57 283, from a 350 vortec crate motor, from a period pre-war hot rodded 21 stud, so blathering a bunch of self important bullshit about "belly button" small blocks makes it easy for them to sound cool. The current real "belly button" motor out there is an 8BA slathered in current reproduction parts. I was at one of the bigger shows around here last Saturday, I saw no less than a dozen 8BA's with all modern reproduction parts on them. What I DIDNT see was any well dressed 265's or 283's with gennie period stuff on them, So which ones the "belly button"? FWIW, my next project after my '39 is a T-tudor. I have a nice 59A core here, but that will sit in the garage, I am rounding up all the parts to build a '57 270hp/283 clone for it. I no interest in another 1-800-speedway belly button with a rompin' stompin' 180hp.
'Being afraid' isn't something I'm accustomed to. 'Knowing when to avoid' is. I have done MANY Ford installs, (the ones in Nick's '32 Tudor sedan and Gene's '32 panel stick most vividly; the '34 Pickup of Richard's was the one with the least problems. Except for the C4 trans he bought from the tranny rebuilder that had sat on the shelf and rusted internally...) Length; mixing-and-matching of pulleys; that God-awful oil pan design, and its nightmare of a solution. I don't like the matchup (miss-match) of the intake manifold, then the confusion of cams/rockers/ and the less-than-ingenious design of the Ford distributor. (the 'arc' of the advance plate...Dwell changes like a politician's character!) "Oh, just use an MSD!" These jobs were done in my shop, and gobbled up shoptime like pirhana. Before you jump on your Y Block and FE horses, let me state that a 'Y Block' kept me out front at Fremont Drag strip for months, in a heavy '56 Ford convertible. I have had a number of them. I have 5 FEs, main one a 406, going together now. (for my '54 Ford Coupe) My F100 has one, as a result of circumstances just falling into place at the most 'inoportune time'. I was NOT Chevy shopping for an engine for my truck. (although a Chevy HAD been stolen out of it before I bought the previously stolen truck...) Let me explain: (even the smartest guy here would have gone this way...or he'll try and lie out if it) I performed an engine replacement for a '69 Corvette customer in '72, finished it the night before he left for Thanksgiving holidays. His thanks (besides paying the bill!) was to gift me the $100 core the Dealer demanded, paying them (and rebutting them) His engine had flattened the cam, (8600 miles) so my Dad gave me a cam and lifters. Rod, main brgs, and rings and I was set. 350 T.H. trans out of a gift car (service mgr's mom died, mgr. gave me her '67 Impala ...rebuilt trans., floor shifter) Jerk ex wife was leaving, (No "YaaY!" emoticons) and the gods of 'cool trucks' smiled down as I slipped that Chevy right in there. Swap meet intake, Rochester Thermoquad, new Mallory ignition, (gift 'bonus' from Al Teague/Speed-o-Motive, for buying/using a number of engine rebuild kits) Carburetor was gifted to me by my shop neighbor, "Brand new...gas runs out, floods, this thing's junk!" "Thanks, Rudy...I'll use it for parts..." Removed the top, bent the floats to drop down without jamming on the sides...adjusted throttle butterflies and choke. NEVER a problem with carburetor. Wired it up that afternoon, ran the cam in, and drove it with open collectors (down below, $20 at Ford Swap Meet!) to muffler shop, Brownie fitted me with 38" glass packs, flat tips angled out at the little bevel at the rear of the running boards. Quiet...and Hairy! (Pop had given me a nice grind, a 286*, and the truck had the original 4.11 Spicer rear...Light the tires with a goose of the Moon pedal...Secondaries at 2500 RPM would pull you into the seat. NO bad manners, I wondered what I'd replace it with. (my Chryslers and Desoto are all too heavy... I was busy with my cars anyway, had a great truck to get me thru.) Rear end started the 'Spider gear warning', so I said I needed to get out to Bob's wrecking yard and find a 9 inch. My bud had a trailer made from a '60 Ford F100, had a 9 in it. He said "Put your old rear in the trailer, you can have that one." I did. The one from the trailer was a 3.0:1, okay, little 'tall', (plus I have tall rears, 3.55/70 X 15) I ordered a mild R-V 'low end' cam, 260*. Changed it, ran it in, truck was 'tamer', but still had some 'gow' We flat towed our '29 roadster pickup out to Baylands (25 miles) with my top box and lots of parts... R/PU had a warmed-over LS6, Muncie, narrow 9, shortened W.B., fast street roadster... Point being, the truck didn't even know it was towing. Solid machine. Pulled boats, hauled Hemis, (more than 20, not all at one time!) pulled car trailers, everything. ...and looked COOL doin' it! One fat kid at the Ford swap looked at my engine, he was about 13...said, "Ohhh, you ruined it! You should put a 289 in it!" I shrugged..."Then it'd run like a '65 Mustang. Too fast for me..." Point is: If ya got it, USE IT. (at least for now) Hemi (or exotic 'Y Block' (?) later, when you can. O.K., I put 145K miles on my small block 350, most of them long 'road trips', other doing shop work. Didn't smoke terribly, but had lost compression...still ran, but not 'fresh'. I knew I was going to finally use my 354 Hemi? Maybe with one of the LaSalles. But fate again reared its ugly head. I had a shop here in Atwater, with a friend of mine. (Ford fanatic, but in heart, so am I) A big account of ours has Chevy trucks for their 'rolling managers', (a small fleet) One of them came in with a steamer...'89 Chevy, 2nd gen. 350, 4 bolts thru valve covers, late heads (swirl port) I pulled the heads, left side head gasket was blown. Mgr said he'd call the office, they'd vy for a crate engine. I took the head to my bench, cleaned it up on mating surface, placed my 2 large horseshoe magnets on the ends, threw some ground iron flux across...Black light...(I could hear Ravi Shankar slightly in the background...) Not a hint of a crack. The owner called and said there would be an engine coming, Acme Fast Freight. I asked about the 'old one', mentioning that it WAS only the gasket. He said, "I don't care, I'm in another business, it's yours if you want it..." And that, boys and girls, is why I made the 'Chevy mistake' twice! (this one's finally faster than the first! Comp 290 cam, Edelbrock intake, Edelbrock 600. (I'm playing with jets and metering rods, so it's getting better...) One thing I did was an INTENSE port match. For street engines, I was not too fanatical about this, sometimes 'help 'em', but this time it was noticed to be suspect of a swirl. Remarkable, the difference) O.K., it's not 'period'. But I need the smooth muscle the 350 gives me. It's still a TRUCK. My 1957 Chev 283 blocks are in the engine shed, my '64 283 is in my '50 F1. (had a Hurst mount, and the F1 was a good rolling dolly for the engine!) My '63 327 is in my front garage, awaiting paint and assembly. A guy on Craigslist had some rings and bearings with part numbers, so I looked up the numbers and found them to be for 327. Ran up to Turlock, he handed me the box of GRANT RINGS, and 2 boxes of Clevite rod and main brgs! I gave him the asking price, ($15) plus more...(two twenties) Thought he was gonna cry... said I coulda got him down to ten. Funny world... Oh, my 327's using the Power Pak (single point) heads, Lunati cam, solid lifters, 7 fin Corvette covers, Corvette ram horns, factory 3 jugger, Rochester 2Vs. Mallory Y-L ignition, (polished!) with Marine rotor and crab cap. The kind George likes. I bought a pair of the new stainless Chevy headers (inside rails type, center dump) on line for $117. (new, a 'leader'...other ads were up to $300. Nice to have...look 'em up) This Chevy (and one 283) will be 'available' to me for something to use, like one of the roadsters...
You know, the funny thing is, most of the "belly button" brigade are on the light side of fifty, and relative newbies to hot rodding. I have all kinds of stuff around here, have a REAL "belly button" 355 in my truck that is so typical its not even funny, OOB rpm heads, solid cam, flat tops zero decked, and a performer RPM with a 750 dp, backed with a loose converter OD and 4.56's. Goes like STINK, decent mid-range torque, runs past 7000 without missing a beat, and will lope along in city traffic at 1800 rpm with no drama whatsoever, and if a hole opens up, bamn, down into first, a little sashay to the left, sashay to the right, and if you aren't paying FULL attention you will be into valve float at around 7800 before you can even think. Fuck you don't even want to THINK about what it would do to any flathead or even 283 you can think of, and it will bumble along in traffic without anyone even noticing you. Its a HOT ROD, like old school guys think of, not any pretentious drive-in poser bullshit, its simple, well mannered and boring, UNTIL you stomp the pedal, then its anything but. It sure aint no prima-donna. Right now I am also building a pseudo Boss 351 for another off-topic car, this will probably edge out the 355 at the track by MAYBE a couple tenths, and it will make maybe 30 more hp between 6000 and 7000, but its going to be a lot less user-friendly, and will have less mid-range torque, and I bet it will SUCK gas compared to the 355 as well. But it WILL look cooler at the drive-in. Flathead vs 355? Well, I guess it depends what you like better, stabbing the long skinny pedal, or parking at the show n shine with the hood up. I wont put a value judgement on either one, but I sure as hell know which one I enjoy more.
This is a ford vs Chevy debate ? Ford was dethroned in 1955. The ford guys just can't get over that I guess.
Some of us are tired of looking at the bellybutton crap and want to read about other stuff,GM made many other great motors and I am personally tired of looking and reading about at the sbc. If I do not put a Ford motor in my 37 Chevy it will be getting a Buick,Olds or Caddy motor,it seems not too many people on here want to blaze their own paths and just follow the leader and do what everyone else does.
Go brush your fuzzy dice...Oh yea, and I also own a 428 FE. Different path my rosy red ass, what a total pile of bullshit. I cant think of ANYTHING more conformist than another gutless flathead laden with Speedway crap. Give me a fucking break.
But regained the crown in 1969 when the Boss 302 / 351 Cleveland came out. At least we can all agree on this.
To all the self-righteous belly-button lovers- just tired of the "put a Chebbie in it" bullshit- usually from folks who don't know how to work on anything else, and spew that crap on pretty much every thread when someone asks about a swap in a Ford- even when the owner says Ford only- and usually just to stir the doodoo. I am well past 50, started wrenching in my gramps' IH dealership and truck shop at 5, have built many kinds, first was a Winsconsin V4 at age 10, started going to Watkins Glen in 65 and saw all the greats and met a few, watched the Cobras and GT40s run new, been 150 plus in an original race GT40 (#P1009, look it up), watched Ford and Chrysler fight in NASCAR through the sixties. Crew chiefed and tuned roundy-rounders for years, helping a friend with his Chebbies because he was my friend. Up to a sprinter with a 410 Shaver, and played with the WoO a few times- the last time pitted between Kaeding and Swindell. Bodied cars with alcohol carbs, Brodix, Carrillo, all that stuff. Currently have 9 or 10 427s, and they are just plain fun, loud, obnoxious and nasty. A few more around, 3 CJs, an SCJ and one poor plain 428. So spare me the been around the block, and grow up yourself. There ain't nothin' wrong with a 302, 351, FE, whatever, and a scrubb crate engine is still boring, and doesn't require a lot of skill or imagination
Wishful thinking. Ford has never regained the popularity that they enjoyed with the Flathead, pre SBC and the new mouse motors (LS) are carrying on. 302/351C are good motors, though.
Um i had a 402 in my nova and smoked ss camaros rt challengers and 1 gto. All i had was a 280 cimp cam headers a lil head work and intake topped with a demon. Computers scare me no ls for me Sent from my LGMS330 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Hmmm, yes, tentative agreement here. Closed chamber 4v clevelands flat out WORK. The last time I did one was about 30 years ago, this go-around, I am finding they are AMAZINGLY cheap to build too.
You don't need a computer to build a gen III. As a matter of fact, the majority of the ones I have seen that REALLY made power had carbs.
Wedge vs canted valves, wedge loses every time Hmmm, you need to re-read my posts Gene. SERIOUSLY dude?? I have damn near as much ford stuff as you do, and I have an Olds rocket and an early hemi to boot. So saying I don't know how to WORK ON ANYTHING ELSE??? ARE you for REAL?? No, my blood don't run ford blue either. I have built them ALL, and I don't have ANY biases. Its just the facts baby. And I have built some pretty rowdy FE's and some serious BBC's. The FE cant run with the Rats for the VERY same reason the chevy small block cant run with the clevelands. Wedges lose to canted valves. More airflow makes more power. Christ, you should know this stuff, theres a reason why BBC's and Clevelands ran the same lbs per inch in Pro Stock, and the wedge head engines had a softer weight break. Facts baby, just the FACTS.
No, clearly you didn't. Illiteracy is such a tragedy in this day and age... I know it just really burns you "XXXX rules" guys when someone from your own camp points out the brutal facts. Glidden once said (I don't know if you have heard of him, maybe not, he ran some moderately successful Fords, but also raced a Mopar and a BBC, won a world championship in the Mopar) "the engine doesn't know what name is on the fender". An intelligent, pragmatic, thinking racer. That may explain the 87 NHRA Oscars...
But the ignition is computer controlled isnt it i dont think they have distributor. Im not well versed on them they scare me hahahaha im barely learning sbc and bbc's. I guess ill move up later after i figure all this out. I love other motors but frankly cant find em or afford them cheebies cheap me poor. Sent from my LGMS330 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
ALL one make lovers are ALL good at whining. Its always easy to tell the guys that really don't have a clue what they are doing, the first clue is an unreasoning, illogical hatred of other makes. Its the refuge of the fool. The intelligent, reasoning builder sees the weaknesses of any given engine and works around them, and sees the strengths and capitalizes on them.
No they don't have a distributor. MSD makes a stand-alone box that works off the crank trigger and fires the coils in order and eliminates everything else so you can run a single plane and a carb. Then you don't have to let the limitations of the EFI dictate the cam specs, and you can really make some serious power. http://www.jegs.com/p/MSD-Ignition/...-GM-EFI-Carbureted-LS-Engines/758329/10002/-1
I've done lots, and learned some. Hated SBCs when younger, was Ford Blue. Mellowing out, I've seen the best of some others. The SBC has helped me thru some narrow windows. (there have been times of not enough money/greedy thieving wife; Ford stuff stolen; other pitfalls.) Thanks to Doctor Jacobs and his '69 'Vette gift horse. All my engines are cast iron, and have cast or steel cranks. My Oldses have Nodular. Lucky.
You have to be a completely delusional headcase to say that someone that owns 3 falcons and a 289 powered t bucket project, and has "Falcon" in his screen name, is somehow anti-ford. Would I really put a sbc in this guys truck, probably not, I would probably put an FE in it, probably a 390. But my reasons are emotional, not rational and those emotions aren't that I am some kind of infantile chevy "hater". And they arent that I an worried about HAMB "street cred", which when you strip away all the bullshit, that's what the "belly button' BULLSHIT is all about, its cruise night posturing, and that's ALL it is. Its because I have a lot of FE parts, and I like them. If I discount the fact that I have a bunch of parts stockpiled that the OP doesn't, and I made the decision based on facts rather than emotion, and I was going to build an engine, rather than buy some auto-wrecker POS and bolt it in, I would put a 383 chevy in it. A 400M with 4v heads would be the second choice...I like power more than most HAMBers. Someone mentioned parting out a Crown Vic, if performance doesn't matter at all, not a bad choice, and I think they have a rear sump pan, right? I built a 383 for my brothers truck a couple decades ago, and around the same time, we put one in a buddies '72 f100 short-box. Both were built when you had to build a 383 by turning down a 400 crank, and both were excellent truck motors.
Hey lets get back to dudes swap. Its his treaf not blue or orange debate haha. I was kinda wanting to hear how to do the swap Sent from my LGMS330 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
The Jalopy Journal
