I'm looking for a 390 to install in a '54 - '56 Ford sedan or wagon. I've been looking on Craigslist and there's always a few pickups, usually F350s, that are driveable and have C-6 auto transmissions. So, is there a good, better and best? Usually the trucks are '70 - 76. I figure I'll replace the timing chain and gears, add a 4bbl aluminum intake and fix any oil leaks. I don't want to do a full rebuild and I'm not looking for big horsepower, just enough to smoke the tires every now and then. Any advice will be welcome.
I would try to find a car 390,I think the truck versions have less compression and might not run as good as a car motor. If my memory is correct the truck versions use 410 pistons which sit lower in the holes.
The Medium duty truck blocks use a car crank, but have extra webbing around the bottom end for cross drilled main caps. FT with a mirror image 105 on front of the block in stead of 352 (engine series not size) If you want to do a minor refresh get a car engine, if you want to do a build get the FT and fit good pistons and a better head.
Cars with 390s on C/L tend to have higher mileage than trucks of the same year and tend to cost more. I have seen trucks with less than 100,000 mi. and an auto trans for as little as $750.00 in 'drive it home' condition. It seldom happens with cars. So I probably won't be swapping heads, just intakes. I'm not clear on what constitutes medium duty. The block with the mirror image 105 is best?? What years should I look at for to find one?
You will unfortunately find that more hooey gets thrown around about FE engines than any others lol... The 390 blocks with the crossbolt nubs came in around 64, when the FT setups came in, and for expediency during the changeover, they just used the same lower cores for a while. The webbing went from 2 webs to three later one, not really tied to crossbolt nubs. The reverse 105 blocks are pretty good in general, just came from MCC instead of DIF where the "352" blocks came from. FT blocks for a certain year weren't cast different, just machined different and can be converted- the FT has a larger distributor bore fr the big governor distributors, and you can bore an FE to make an FT dixxy fit, or bush an FT block to fit an FE dizzy. An FT block will also have a drilled & tapped hole near the pan rail for air compressor oil drainback. If you were a little closer, I have a few sittng around. Pretty easy swap into 54-57 cars
If you aren't building a big hp motor from the ground up, it really doesn't make a hill of beans of difference which 390 you use, just get a good sound motor with even compression in all cylinders. It sure as hell doesn't matter if it has the thick webs for what you are doing, not one bit. Focus more on the mechanical condition of the motor, and don't waste time worrying about exotica that has no relevance for what you are doing.
One thing to note is the 1 ton trucks usually used a short tailshaft tranny with a bolted-on yoke and a two-piece driveshaft (as did some of the long-bed lighter trucks), so keep that in mind. And you might look at the 360s too; same bore, heads and compression in most cases, just a bit less power. Easy upgrade to a 390 (or bigger) later...
Just about any 390 is the same power wise. To find a "good used" vintage motor anymore is near impossible. I build a lot of Buicks, but have worked on SBC, Olds 394, Chevy LS and so many Fords(pick one) it's not even funny. To warn you FE's are expensive. Let me say that again, FE's are expensive to build, make power, etc. For that matter, Y-blocks are not cheap either, but might be an easier swap. What is your goal with the car? What motor does it have now? You can make power with a Y-block. Might be a lot easier than doing a whole swap. FYI, 390's are heavy pigs that will need head work/cam/alum intake to make any decent power. Sorry, not trying to be negative, but I am offering a perspective from builder.
The first time I made such a swap it was to put a 352 where a 272 had died. It was 1962 and 390's weren't in the junkyards yet. Since then I've done a few 390s that I rebuilt and a few Windsors as well. This one, if I get it done, will be the last one so that's the reason for the FE. It'll probably never get driven more than 300 miles in a day and no racing (well, maybe a street encounter now and then) so I'm just looking for a mechanically sound engine. A '68 390 that I rebuilt had a composite timing gear and that's one reason I'll be pulling the front off the engine. I think it's going in a '56 but I haven't had a firm decision from She Who Must Be Obeyed.
The 70's truck 390s are just a simple swap away from being back to higher compression like the earlier motors. They used 410 pistons to get the compression height down. So you can either get a 428 crank and flywheel, or a set of earlier 390 pistons, and get the pistons out of the hole.
As stated by junkyard Jeff, the pickup 390s have a different pin height (410 piston) to drop compression to minimize detonation under high loads. A passenger car engine is a better starting point unless you are building from a core. Having the piston down in the hole isn't a good thing for performance. Most medium truck engines are FTs, and use a different crank snout, damper, heads, intakes, low compression, water pumps, front cover, and the block is different in the distributor area so car distributors don't drop in. Oil pumps and drive, as well as oil pans are different too. Most pickup engines advertised as 390s are actually 360s, since they look the same externally. Caveat Emptor.
Another choice is a mid 60s 352,I had a couple and they do run good and if do do get a truck 390 that is actually a 390 and not a 360 you should be able to put car pistons in it to increase the compression,
if your concerned about hardened seats the 72 up ones have induction hardened seats but that's usually lost during a good valve job stay away from 360s unless you want to swap the crank
I just barely missed a clean 410 in a 67-68 Merc Marauder (DANG IT) I did get the freshly rebuilt C6. $65
the cranks are expensive now, I have one, glad I already have it. I paid $300 for mine 30 yrs ago, got it from a local stock elim. racer. They were never cheap or easy to find. You can probably get one from Scat for less than an original, still $$
that complete 410 4v sold for $150 at our pic a part I still mourn over that my neighbor has a mid 60s cab over that has a 391 going to try to see it those engines have any cool parts I can use it is a 4v with a holley
Yeah, 428 cranks are definitely spendy. Piston swap would definitely be more economical, plus if your block needs a cleanup bore you'll need new ones anyway.
Thanks for the information about the 390s. I'm sure it will help me when I'm inspecting prior to purchase.
If you can get that "391" that is the best stock 390 because the cranks are forged steel. More/less same as a 427 crank.
391's are not the best choice for what you are doing, they are low compression and a conventional FE distributor wont work without a spacer. For what you are doing, the cast crank will outlive you, you have ZERO need for a steel crank, and the nose is bigger than a conventional 390 crank. There is no reason to go hunting exotica, and its not in your best interest.
The interchangeability and the long production run of the FE means you never really know what is bolted between the frame rails of a FE equipped vehicle. If you want some serious torque and excellent longevity, a stock 390 with a 4BBL and dual exhaust will get you where you need to go for long, long time.
You might want to preview this book then pick one up. http://www.mre-books.com/interchange/index.html
I'm in the same boat as you vick. I have a 352/C4 out of a late 60's... something... in my '58 right now. Picked up a 390/C6 from a '76 truck for $300. Figured I couldn't go wrong with that. I'm actually looking to do the same thing to the 390, maybe with some of the 352 parts. Like what's been said, I really won't know what I have till I tear into either. It seems the best thing for weight and upgraded power is aluminum heads/intake with any given came to your liking. I at least want to do that, but I know of NO one in the Midwest who is familiar with these motors, let alone someone I'd trust. Anyone have any recipes of setups they'd like to share? You can usually look up wild setups online, what about the mild stuff? 300-400hp range that's reliable for road-trippin'. I'm kind of at a loss of what to get as far specifics and specs.
Actually a mild 390/410 can be fairly economical to build, and if your pickup 390 has cherry bores at std, even better. Two choices at that point for a mild one, go to the car pistons with the correct pin height, or find a 410/428 crank and use the 390 pickup/ 410 pistons. If you end up needing a bore, the rebuilder pistons can be found on epay for cheap. Being rebuilder stuff, they tend to be a bit down in the hole, a deck squaring will get it a bit tighter, and a trick since you have a 352 and want a mild one, is to use the 352 rods, they are a little lighter and not quite as beefy, but are slightly longer and can get the pistons a little closer to the deck. Use the ARP bolts and they are plenty strong for a cruiser. Some thin head gaskets and the quench will be a lot closer. For a mild cruiser something like a 268H cam, or if you want a bit more noise and oomph a 270H or similar. Edelbrock heads can be had fairly reasonably, or a good set of C1 or C4 heads will accept the LR/CJ valves and then are functionally similar to those heads. If you seriously want a mild cruiser, a Performer intake will be good down low and for mileage, but will run out of breath quickly up higher, if you want more an RPM, Streetmaster, Street Dominator, F427 will all work well. The PI is also good but tend to go for high money. Good exhaust, Duraspark or Pertronix kit and go. Don't fall for one of those cheap HEI conversion deals, they are ugly as hell and don't have the quality of a Duraspark or Pertronix. I have a buddy who is very good with the Duraspark and can curve one to your needs, and MSD has a conversion cable to plug a Duraspark directly to an MSD box for about $15
Don't forget that Phord in their infinite wisdom changed flywheel diameter and gear pitch around 1964 so starters have to be matched to the 'wheel. Don't ask me how I know this.
A flat top piston with a 1.78 pin height will get you a low 9 to 1 compression ratio with most heads stay away from the 1.67 pistons.
If you are talking Performer RPM heads, they don't move any more air than a set of C1AE's with CJ valves and a simple pocket port. So I wouldn't expect any more power from them than a set of iron heads with porting that any competent backyarder can do in his shed. I know what the magazines will say about this, but they are in the business of selling parts. If you doubt this, there are flow numbers in Jay Browns book.
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