Let's Talk Cyclecars

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Hello Rusty,​

That was my post-teenager-era dream! Strange construction, but should be interesting drive with light weight, big power and one-wheel drive! Suspension is quite strange to me, but wheels look taken from Citroen 2CV...
If I had it, by some nice chance, I would pull-out and sell that motorcycle engine, instal some cheaper modern, have fun and a lot of money beside that!

Ciao!​

P.S.: Body is almost lower than 15" wheels! (from Citroen 2cv?)
P.P.s.: Web-link for tons of photos with plans to build own replica, if somebody want that:
http://jalopnik.com/5098042/all-wooden-speedball-special-roadster-built-for-sale-in-st-louis

 

I have the magazine in my collection. They are not hard to find, they printed thousands of them. The plans may be on the net.

Today you would use an inline 4 motorcycle engine. Even a 500cc would be more powerful than a 1952 Ariel. As for the rest of the car, I thought of using ATV front suspension. But, there are lots of small cars too.

The wooden body would be strong and light weight. But, I don't know what would happen in an accident.

The original article with build instructions

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/build-your-own-mahogany-sports-car/2/#mmGal

 

a few images of the GN "THUNDERBUG" from Simon lewis at the Loton Park Hillclimb. Be sure to check out his website for vintage motoring books...you know ... like "Specials" by John Bolster or "Split Seconds" by Raymond Mays.

 

Zoran

The rear suspension consists of the springs under the seat.... and is only to protect the very large and thin Aluminum casting.

The front suspension is what the kids here on the board would call "Suicide" two rather straight soft quarter springs going forward to the axel. I think you should understand that you do not have enough hands to drive this. I have a lot of experience with strange machinery. With this one your required to hold the gear lever in gear because this is also the clutch lever. That is simple enough one your underway. ....Hold the tiller with one hand to steer and hold the gear lever with the other. But it's not tat simple getting underway or stopping. Since in addition to holding both the tiller and gear lever you must retard or advance the spark and open or close the throttle TOO.

I am tall and can, more or less, hold and steer the tiller with my knee. The first time I drove the car a front wheel fell off as they were retained with left hand nuts only and one HUB NUT UNSCREWED! It was a moment. No real damage noted. As soon as I got out of the car it raised slightly. And I returned it to my workshop. THANKING THE GODS!
About health...... I have lost a lot of weight. I want live as long as I can with my lovely wife. Together we care for and maintain a lot of wonderfully strange objects.

 

Bluto,
If I remember correctly, noboD first described you to me as a bit of a "wonderfully strange object"

 

And your point is.........

 

Thank you Bluto for sharing this. The car has what looks like a most complicated engine for such a simple car. Can you comment on the engine please?

 

1934 Klausenrennen. p. Viossat driving a 750C.C. Mathis.

 

I think I have answered all this with previous posts and the photos. If you have anything specific after reviewing these please feel free to PM me.

These are all the photos I've left. The little capped box is the oil bag. The machine is total loss and drip fed.

And yes I do miss it but without tires it was no longer a driver.

 

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Bluto,​

Thank you on additional information about strange but magnificent Goddeu tandem-seated veteran!

For sure that with such commands I shouldn't dare to go out of parking-space – as with most of early veteran automobiles!

As our total mass should be bigger then automobile's – springing of our seats would be enough (for fixed rear axle) for so light, simple and slow replica-automobile with big wire-wheels. Of course, commands should be simpler and more practical – no need to replicate everything in detail!

All the best!​

 

Nice to see you posting again. Hope your recovery continues to go well. You certainly do have custody of many wonderfully strange objects.

I'm off to the Circuit des Ramparts in Angouleme tomorrow and hope to see plenty of weird and wonderful cycle cars. Hope to see you at Retromobile next year.

 

1927 Amilcar CGSS from DT at the 2006 European Motor show in Brussels.

 

In https://www.zwischengas.com/is a good article about Garde cycle cars,but only in german.

 

Sorry the brand is Grade!

 

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Rolf,​

Thank you on input for strange and interesting cyclecar!
Yes, It was made by Hans GRADE, German aviation pioneer...


https://www.zwischengas.com/de/VC/veranstaltungsberichte/Classic-Gala-Schwetzingen-2016.html

Google Translator from shown web-site:

"Hans Grade (born May 17, 1879 † October 22, 1946) took on 28 October 1908 its first flight in Magdeburg, although it was only about 100 m and ended with a crash landing, but classifying him in the group of aviation pioneers. Grade remained aircraft development faithfully and was so far an important part of the German Air Force in WW1.
After the war and the Treaty of Versailles could be made for many years in Germany no planes. However, for automobiles, this did not apply. Let's look at the cars in the early 20s, so these were big, heavy and expensive. What was missing was a smaller, lighter and more affordable cars.
And the Hans Grade had with his design in mind. Although we do not know how degrees came up with the idea of the floor pan as the first self-supporting body and the friction wheel to accept is that it had the advantages of low weight, vulgo of lightweight construction, known from aviation.
Let's look at the implementation of Grade'schen ideas in more detail. For an optically and acoustically unmistakable unmistakable Exemplarwar among participants, proudly presented by R. Aust from Borkheide, former Bork, where the vehicles were manufactured in a small factory.
The body shape is clearly derived from the aircraft. The special feature is the bottom tray made of sheet steel, which carries the suspension and up to the seam extends below the exhaust. With a strong riveting the spring receiver is attached, which must transfer all acceleration, braking and lateral forces on the car body.
The teardrop shape of the floor pan results in addition to the weight reduction compared to the then usual leadframe extra rigidity and an aerodynamic advantage through the closed bottom. The wheels are designed for the same reason as discs.
The second brilliant idea Hans degree is the friction gear, which saves on the one opposite the transmission weight, but above all costs. Because the changing times accordingly had Grade affordable small cars in mind and has all of the non-motorized mobility relevant components omitted, so other than the conventional transmission on a differential. When a track width of 1000 mm could accept the disadvantage of slightly spinning inner wheel when cornering in purchasing. The drive is by chain to the rigid rear axle.
The run through the cockpit propeller shaft is rigidly connected to the transverse direction to the flywheel, that is as long as the engine is running, the flywheel rotates. Perpendicular to the flywheel is the friction wheel, which is pressed by a spring against the flywheel. In the cockpit, the left is the "lever" which adjusts the friction wheel on the flywheel, the center, idle, outside in the large gear. The Reibradwelle acts on the car body located outside the gear from which the rigid rear axle is driven by means of chain. Advantages: easy and inexpensive to manufacture and light weight.
We come to the engine, so we see the front part of an air-cooled 2-cylinder two-stroke engine of 859 cc and a power of 16PS, in the sports execution 20 hp. Again, low-cost production and weight saving by air cooling. The air is sucked in through the front slots and out into the open air again through the lateral. Started the engine manually by a person sitting on the propshaft flight bars."​

Transaltion is rude a little, but understantable?
Regards!

 

Zoran...

My thought is that Goddeu is best used as a "Visual guide" rather than a plan for mechanical detail. Since it was a development platform made without any real world application in mind. It was meant to evolve and change constantly.

Being a very very early platform for the inventors ideas, more or less, in a vacuum and without the luxury of the builder ever seeing the mistakes of others to guide him to workable solutions.

I was attracted to it because of the above circumstances it was really very successful generally.

I once had a 1905 Curtis air-cooled V-8 are engine. It was one of the first engines to leave the ground under it's own power. Same kind of thing. I could carry this engine under my arm yet it allowed genuine powered flight! As well as being fitted to a ballon and motorcycle too.

Sometimes I have referred to these objects like the sewers of Paris..... wonderful engineering but still full of shit. I have a couple of Street Organs..... mechanical bands that whistle, clunk and shake almost making music and always fun to watch. A visual guide rather than musical.

Blackjack.... good to see you here as well. It's a long way to France from here wet and cold. I quit going to Retromobile when I realized that there were so many lovely Museums I really preferred. And honestly so much of "Retro" wasn't very different that the things I see here everyday.

 

300 PAGES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Zoran- regarding tandem seating, it has been my goal to try to design the car to provide as much of a motorcycle experience as possible on four wheels, so as you suggested the seating will be setup much like a motorcycle with the passengers legs stratling the driver and their seat positioned slightly above so they have a nice view. Hopefully the car is still fun to drive with passenger as I'm not big on riding two up on motorcycles. I prefer having a bike to myself! I also prefer to go on rides solo. Steering-wise, I think I've figured out a way to keep the original RH box. The plan is to move it further back along the frame rail so it sits just behind the cylinder since the cylinder sits right where it was originally mounted. Then I'll lengthen/extend the drag link in its straight section so the factory geometry is retained. It's the easiest solution since it doesn't require pitman arm mods, etc.. My only concern is the clearance needed for turning radius. The original drag link has some complicated curves to in in other to rac out of the way when turning full lock to right. Also going to be tricky dealing with brake actuating rod on same side, but I think it's all do-able. Then I'll cut the column at the box and use steering joints to bring it back to center and hang the column from a center hoop/cowl support like a go-kart.

RustyO'Toole- thanks for the suggestion. I thought about that and it might be kinda cool. One thing I keep forgetting is that I don't have headlights mocked up. They should help balance things out a bit and worse case I could always overcompensate for the small grille by running big headlights!

I'm liking the lines. The grille would actually sit a few inches taller off the frame creating less hood slope. Heads will be exposed, louvers above them and at rear of engine compartment with fresh air scoop for motor. Thinking of a one piece setup hinged at the front just behind grille with notches for heads providing easy access to everything.

 

Still watching!

 

A fine local show with some great cars. Bob

 

Hubert Koechlin,Belfort...from J-P C.

 

BSA three wheeler

 

amilcar from post # 8978

 

Hispan Suizza powered Amilcar

 

1970's G.C.L. image

 

BNC

 

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Hello Bluto,​

You are quite right with your opinion about using Goddeu just as inspiration for possibly built light motorised quadricycle! There were exact replicas of old-timers, but they are complicated and expensive to build and sometimes unpractical to use, even for lazy weekend drives... There were 100 (?) replicas of the first Benz three-wheeler made some years ago and sold for 100 000 Deutsch Marks each, then a few exact replicas of the first Henry Ford's quadricycle and so on... Such exact replicas of veterans should be terrible for driving today, even in modest traffic! Then, there are exact replicas of Bugattis and Alfa-Romeos made by Pur-Sang in Argentina (they claimed that their parts are interchangeable with parts of original automobiles)...
But, if I ever built something, I would be quite far away from such examples. A lot of my friends made replicas of veteran automobiles (so-called horseless-carriage-replicas), but with modern components: engines and transmission, steering and brakes, even disk type... However, general look as many details are similar to originals. Some of them are even registered as classic vehicles! My friend Stu from Australia built Stanley Steamer with steam engine, then one Locomobile replica with gasoline engine and replica of Henry's Quadricycle, with some modifications, but with engine built from scratch, and one engine for Oldsmobile from 1903... Lyle from USA built replica of high-wheeler Holsman, with modern engine and disk-brakes, but almost looking as original (on photos is original Holsman and his replica)...

My way should be quite modest, with simple veteran (or cycle-car) as inspiration, so Goddeu could be good way for such proejct – but with many modern components, not so visible!
(excellent parable of antic cars with Paris canalisation – magnificent project, even engeneering beauty, but...)
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Curtiss V-8 aviation engine was one of the best and lightest from that period, beside European Antoinette of similar construction, but water-cooled... (there was even 16-cylinder engine)



Our member Rolf is in process of building Fraser-Nash replica with Curtiss OX-5 engine! It is something younger than your, but both of them are magnificent!
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Street organs – known as “vergl” in our countries (old Yugoslavia), was my old fascination, known from films about period before the WW2 - I never saw one in live... More popular was small model, as bigger box, hanging on belt on musician neck and standing on one leg! On the side was a lever as for cranking-start of antic automobiles...

Always would like to have one and to “play music” on streets (couldn't play, dance or sing), not carrying too much for troubles that I ordinary had in my life.

Regards!​

 

Morning Zoran

The Curitss V-8 I was given to sell for the owner was an air cooled 1905 unit. These type of engines were used on Airplanes, balloon and the motorcycle. You could carry it under your arm no over the shoulder needed.

About replicas:

Well I have spent my entire life preserving history and urge anyone to search for something real. There are many things out there needing people's time and treasure. I think replicas therefore detract from the efforts needed to preserve history. I have some things that are really unusable but still fun to look at and I try to keep these just to SAVE them. Other things, like the Goddeu were and are useable within reason.

Very early automobiles really appeal to only a few. They are out there. And providing they don't get to a dealer interested in making money rather that history the prices are often very fair. Museums have a lot of early stuff they just don't think fit in to their collection. That's how I got the Goddeu. Please turn your efforts and skill toward preservation. The search is wonderful as is the satisfaction of standing next to something you've have saved.

We still have 40+ vehicles it is possible

We own this for many years. The day after I got it I was offered 20X what I paid for it. You honestly don't need to be rich......... only driven!



I have to look in my Library I have a 20's TUV book with a bunch of small automobile ideas. I will try to find the sketches and post them here.

I brought this a Hershey 1999 It cost more to ship it home than it's price. of many thousands of people I was the only one that cared to step up




I'd still have it if it hadn't been by the inventors son hadn't wrote me with an appeal to own it.

 

This is still out there.......