First, thanks for any help! I have a few projects in flight and as I move through them I want to use as much as I can to build a traditional AV8 '30 Tudor. I currently have a '53 Merc motor that's coming out of my gasser project that I will use, runs good. I have a '48 F1 that's getting a different drive train set up so the question is how much of that one can I use. -flatty is stuck in the F1, I'll shelve that for later.. -Use the trans cross member? -F1 steering box -Can I use the 4 spd from the truck? -How about the rear axle? -Front brakes and spindles? I've got the Tardel book but I just want to make sure I don't miss anything that I can use... I also have the chance of picking up a rolling 42-48 chassis. Wondering if I should do that and use those wishbones etc? Just looking for some guidance, I've read a lot on here and obviously there are a few different ways to go. Based on what you see I have access to, what should I do? As always, thx!! Brandon
read the Tardel book again...you must have missed some of it.all your questions above are answered in it.
Front brakes & spindles: Kind of. Need to use the drums too. Most times these are shot The spindle has an odd steering arrangement. I guess you can make it work Steering box: Without question. One of the best to use if it's good. Front shock mounts: Yes, take these. Front axle: Nope, not even close. Transverse spring set, plus clunky as hell looking. 4 sp: Nope. Most 4 sp. trucks had a PTO attachment. That thing is a boat anchor. Literally. Center X member: Yep, using one in my '28 AV8 roadster build. Rear: Nope. Again, transverse springs and more than likely a 4:11 or taller ratio I think that covers it. May be best to part out as much as you can and use the funds to buy the right stuff. Just my two cents.
Yes on the crossmember and pedals if you aren't using them in the F1. Same on the steering box. You could use the 4 speed with the truck rear end but the gearing for a light little car might be off. I think yes but am not positive on the spindles and brakes. I think if you want an open drive a 41 to 47 truck rear end is the one a lot of folks use. Is the 42-48 chassis a car chassis or truck chassis? If a car chassis it will have a lot of stuff you could use. Its rear end would be preferable to the truck one but it is not an open driveline and would need to be shortened or converted to open. The front axle and all brakes would work for a 4 wheel hydraulic brake setup. My A has a ford 9 inch from a Bronco, a model A dropped front axle, 53-56 front brake setup, 50 F1 steering box, and a custom made crossmember with my own pedal setup. There are a multitude of ways to assemble these cars and the Tardel book is a good general guideline but you will need to decide what works best for you.
Do yourself a favor and consider a 5 speed. T5 is unbeatable. We put one in our roadster and it makes driving so much better.....
Thanks for the help! It's a car chassis, I didn't want to jump on it if there wasn't enough usable stuff on it. I'd love to use a T5 if I can find one but as many know they have become few and far between for the shifter placement. I didn't think about the F1 pedals, they are coming out so I'll figure that part out. Between the 42-48 car chassis and the 48 F1 it sounds like I'll have a lot of what I need. And yes, I'll read the book again, just looking for some input...
If you use the brakes from the truck and plan to use early wire wheels be sure to check the fit. I have read that a very thick spacer is required. Charlie Stephens
I would avoid the truck tranny, low gear is about useless so you end up with a 3 speed that weighs a ton(uh been there done that). I like a T5 well enough but I would not use one in a traditional build. You have so much of a traditional build lying there if trad is what you want, then find yourself a a '39 tranny, or a fifties 3 speed OD if OD is what you want. Either one is something you can find and they are not that expensive in the whole scheme of things. I would use the truck rear, steering box and brakes'n'spindles if I had them and they were in good shape. The truck wheels will work too. I am big fan of using what you got. My current build is using what I got for the most part. What you got to build with is way more trad then my collection and that puts you way ahead of the game from where I sit.
I had a different outcome with my A-V8 roadster. The trouble began as I was mocking up the engine-cowl-trans against the F1 crossmember located at the most common height on the frame just under the frame top rail. With the engine-trans mounted, getting the carbs level required that the engine had to be jacked up to a line far above the line through the original engine trans axis. The down side of this is the that the engine will not clear the firewall as well as it would if mounted lower on the frames designed axis therefore the Model A center crossmember has to be gutted to clear the driveshaft. Next minor complication is faced as the F1 pedals are mounted in their F1 position, they have to be modified to clear the frame and steering column. Next I lowered the F1 crossmember to reduce the engine-trans altitude which is the root of the troubles. Luckily I was rescued by finding a Tardel K-member at a swap meet and a beautiful stepped frame which put me back on a more sanitary path. I go to many Hot Rod events and have become quick at spotting the F1 slop jobs. Guys just can't believe that the F1 crossmember isn't the quick fix that so many claim passionately. Ignorance of Physics and Mechanical Engineering does not make us immune to bad design choices. Good Luck: Fred A
Thanks for the advice. Yea after I thought about the trans I looked up the gear ratios and 1st is like something out of a caterpillar tractor! I guess I'll make a pile of the parts I have and see what I can put together. I really want to do a traditional one so I will look around for a suitable trans. I've already got other modes of transportation covered, 48 Coupe that's a long distance cruiser, the '53 Merc Gasser in flight, the F1 in flight (which will be a 50's custom on the outside, underneath not so much) so might as well turn the '30 into a sweet traditional rod. Oh, and if I get bored, I have a damn '30 Model AA grain truck if I want completely stock... now let's talk about gears in that thing... Thanks again to everyone that posted responses... Some of us just need a little guidance and direction... Brandon
Brandon FYI - I put a top loader 4 speed behind my 8BA with a Jeep toploader shift tower. Works really well and places the shifter in almost the stock location. Only thing I had to do was open up the registration hole in a stamped steel flathead bell housing. The 66 mustang tranny had the dual bolt pattern and it lined right up with the flat head bolt pattern. Also had to clearance the tranny case so the top loader shifter would drop down in place. Should work well with the Bronco 9 inch.
Oh, also have 34 Ford wire wheels on mine. I used a 1 1/4" spacer for a 5 on 5 1/2" to 5 on 5 1/2" bolt pattern. Some folks have suggested they look odd out outside the drum, but I don't think they look any better or worse than the Buick drums on Ford backing plates I have seen.
Funny, I just picked up a jeep shifter to do this in my F1... I've got two toploaders, one slated for the gasser and one for the F1. If I find another decent one that does not feel like prison rape I might go that route...
For my part in the F1 crossmember, I'm working on an open wheel car. If I let it hang down low enough to correct the engine-trans height, it looked like an organ growing out the belly. Fenders or at least splash aprons would have allowed someplace to get lower. That must be referring to the Ford Factory with all the trimmings. Good Luck: Fred A
@GordonC that's damned good information. Someone reading this thread will put that to good use. @Hot Rod Brando its been more years than I would like to remember (or admit to) but when I was a kid a friend and I owned a '53 Merc Monterrey, full bore flatty and 3 speed OD (stock tranny). Basically a stock mild custom. While on summer brake we took a trip to Calif, Nevada, up to Washington (though Idaho) and back to Oregon. It was a good good road car. Granted it was not an A and had the bigger Merc mill but it was basically a flathead powered old heap. With an OD I would be looking at the stock truck rear which I am going to guess is in the 4.1*:1 range. Car rears may be in the 3.7:1 range and would work well with out and OD, especially with a tallish tire.
basically just about anything in the 60's fords. Stay away from later ones (70's) as they are not the same. Here is a great website with some reference charts. http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/ There was a great article in the 1990 Dec issue of Street Rodder on how to put a jeep top mount shifter onto a 60's toploader 4 speed instead of on the tailshaft. Turns out there's the same mod available for the toploader 3spd of the same era. Just different jeep shifter. I found the idea here on the HAMB and then last week I found the street rodder issue at one of the "backissue" places. Paid $8 for it and totally worth it. Found the jeep shifter at a jeep parts place, paid $140 for it. That was actually just for the shifter, the price was $140 for the whole trans, I told them to keep the trans. While I haven't done it yet (I just got the shifter) it seems to be fairly straight forward for someone with mechanical skills. I'll be getting a rebuild kit from Dan Williams Toploader and doing it then. The only thing that's more than mechanics is that you have to clearance the top of the trans case to clear the reverse part of the shifter. So, you really can't do it to an assembled unit unless you are ultra careful not to get grindings in the case. Here's the shifter, just happened to show up yesterday... The other thing I will do is probably make a different shifter arm itself... maybe a swan neck or something...
Thanks. I have some extra Ford swan necks if you want to graft one on the Jeep shifter. They are actually tapered in that they are a thicker at the bottom than the top. Keep in mind, they ain't going anywhere.
I'm putting one in my car, syncro I'm putting one in mine, synchromesh all the way to first. I have a 53 ford pu top loader and the gearing is too low. I have a 3:89 rear out of a 50 ford. 40 mph is 2000 rpm, so 60 is 3000. I need an over drive bad.
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