Technical Small Block T10 to 390...Will it Work

I just bought this T10 with the idea that I could mount it behind my 1963 390 Police Interceptor Galaxie project. I posted up on a Facebook group and got about 200 different opinions. So I thought I would ask on here ( and get another 200) LOL. Ok here is what I know. The tranny was mounted to a 302 that they pulled from a 1970 Torino. From what I understand this combo did not exist in 1970, so its not original. Here is my plan. I have a Bell Housing from a 1974 360 Truck. I have a flywheel from a mid 70's 390 truck, I have clutch and pressure plate from either the 360 or the 390 (Can't remember). From my discussions on Facebook it looks like the input shaft could be an issue. The T10 I have has 1 1/8" Diameter(AND 1 1/8" Pilot shaft after the spline(Smooth area that goes into the pilot bearing. I "guess" the Big Block Input shaft had 3/4" of pilot shaft. My T10 has 1 1/8" and I guess this is correct for a small block...ie the 302 it came off. Here the next problem, I have a truck bell housing, that is longer than a car, "I guess about 5/8". This could be a good thing since the input shaft is 3/8" longer than a big block T10. Here is my question" Using the Small Block T10, Truck Bell Housing and Stock 1963 390 PI crankshaft...Will it reach the pilot bearing or too short or too long. Many guys said it would be too long and if the crank is not recessed deep enough could hit. I tend to think it would work or if anything be too short. Please take a look at the pict, these are the parts I have to use. I slid the pilot bearing on just too make sure it was the correct diameter.

 

Can't you just mock it up without the clutch?

 

Yes I could, but I have the engine in the car and don't really want to tear it apart till I know if it will work. I just put the car together over the summer with a C6. I haven't even drove it. I still need modify the shift linkage (If I decide to keep it) and get all new brakes $$ for it. It is tough to find a "reasonable" priced 4 speed in my area. When I saw this on CL I moved quickly to buy it. I paid $150 for it with a 302 Bell Housing. I have accumulated parts over the years and just wanted to know if this set up would work.

 

You might get everything to bolt up but the torque of a 390 would probably make short work of the small T-10. Shop around and pick up a Ford top loader and be done with it.

 

Many moons ago I did the opposite. I had a 390/4speed in a Fairlane and I changed it to a 302. The big block trans did not fit. I forget if it was either too short or too long, but I got a truck bellhousing to use and it worked out fine. I wouldn't worry about breaking the T-10 unless you are rough with it. I had a friend that bought a new 66 Comet with a 390 in it and it came with a BW T-10 from the factory according to him.

 

The top loader I'm running in a 76 390 F100 has a imput leight of 6.5 inches from front of case to end of pilot shaft with a bellhousing and flywheel like you have. Check that the front bearing retainer and the hole in the bellhousing are the same diameter.

 

Amen

 

Back in 1964 a friend bought a brand new 64 Ford Galaxie 500 with a (Police) 330 HP 390. It came with a T-10. It didn't last long, the first time he tore it up they warrantied it. Later he bought an early top loader and had no problems since.

To add to the story, he traded it after a few years and has been chasing it since then. It has never left the general locale it started in. Just has a 427 dual quad motor now, he has never been able to buy it back.

 

a pal went to the junkyard for a t-10; they had a trailer full, all broken in the same way. a super t-10 might hold up but you're better off with the top loader...

 

I'm pretty sure the car would have came with a T10 from the factory. I think the small block shaft is longer and would/could contact the inner portion of the crank if not recessed deep enough, but since I am using a "Thicker"truck housing, it should equal out. If its too long I can shorten it up, but like my old girlfriend said "If its too short, Its too short!" as for the T10 holding the 330hp with stock tires and open diff it should be fine.

 

This the tranny bolted the truck bell. Its about 3/8" short of being flush

 

As for the T-10 being durable enough....it all depends on how you plan to treat it. The T-10 is a derivative of the BW T-85 heavy duty three speed. Certainly not bulletproof, but no slouch either. It was used in the '50s and '60s in a wide range of heavier duty passenger car applications in Fords, T-Birds, Mercurys, Lincolns, Pontiac for a short time in early '60s, and other ...ahem....'less well known makes'.

So, it's up to you.......if you think you will abuse the T-10, take other's advice and get a top loader. If you are satisfied with performance driving, short of abuse, you'll, probably be fine with the T-10.

Ray

 

Define the difference between "performance driving" and "abuse"...

Depends a lot on the 390 too. The T-10 is probably ok.

 

George, thank you for saving me the effort of conjurring a definition of 'abuse'. The photo says it all.

Ray

 

Geez! I thought a 30 lb wheel, slicks and 6800 rpm was "performance driving"!

 

As a beloved former boss of mine was fond of saying "that guy could break an iron ball !"



Ray

 

Aint no wimpy t-10 either...

 

Did you make an alignment tool out of the broken input shaft?

 

that's the output shaft, not the input. I tossed it in with my assorted drifts, it'll come in handy for something sometime. Toploader output shafts make a nice fusible link!

 

Ok Ok I here ya!!, Top loader is a superior tranny, but I got a T10, so it will have a T10. Back to the original question. Will the combination of this T10(Small Block. Probably 1965 Mustang or Falcon) and a truck bell housing give me enough pilot shaft to get in the bearing? PS Holy Dog Crap, OUCH on the Top Loader Pict.

 

My 390 is a bone stock rebuild of a 1963 330hp PI.

 

If you are going to run regular street tires, don't do any towing, and you drive it like a white man, the T-10 will probably be fine.

 

You measured the distance from the bell to the end of the shaft, do the same from the surface on the block to the bottom of the crank hole.....should give you a rough estimate anyway

 

Yep, the '63 cars still had the T10, and their longevity/durability behind the FE was the reason Ford developed the toploader.... LOL. Just wouldn't take the FE torque... With that said, there still may be a few issues. IIRC, the truck bell is slightly bulkier than the car unit as well as being slightly longer, so you may have clearance issues around it. Some judicious firewall/floor bashing may be needed; pay particular attention at the top two belhousing bolts as you may find it hard to get the bolts in. As to the pilot bearing shaft length, I'd do some very careful measuring before shortening it. You need full engagement on the pilot bearing/shaft, less than full will result in the input shaft hogging the soft bronze bushing out, leading to clutch chatter and eventually trans input bearing failure. This is a common problem when using a FE trans behind a small block, the fix is a steel roller bearing in place of the bronze bushing. You can get a steel pilot bearing for the FE in the aftermarket, although there's supposedly several 'generic' ones that will work also. Do a bit of research here. Some guys are reporting bronze bushing failure due to clutch disc dust with 'modern' disc facings as some are quite abrasive. Personally, I'd go with a steel bearing; they cost a bit more but will eliminate this as an issue.

Last, be aware that the T10 is notorious for popping out of gear in the lower gears when decelerating after they have some miles on them. Manually 'holding' it in gear is hard on the shift forks. A 'normal' rebuild won't fix this, the problem is the syncro design. BW addressed this in the redesigned Super T10 and it may be possible to 'upgrade' the older trans to the better design or at least used to be, but the parts costs (1st through 4th gears and new complete syncro assemblies) is close to the cost of a new trans. A good used toploader is cheaper and stronger.

 

You called me.... but all the info you need is in the post above mine.

My opinion.
I'd say just use the c6, sell the t10. live a long happy life.
If you said you had a toploader I'd have a different opinion.

 

Lightweight 427 63 Galaxies came with aluminum T-10s in them. I had an engine and trans in my 57 Ford back in 1965. I sheered the input shaft off on it too from a roll so be advised. Im sure it will work but I dont know what bellhousing you would need. Mine had the factory RC Aluminum one in it

 

Yeah, Ford did try aluminum-cased T10s, but they were even worse for breaking; too much case flex. The racers went back to iron-case units quickly....

 

Thank you! Very informative.

 

Thanks DeepRoots, I trust your opinion! You have been along with this project since I got it.

 

Oh yeah? I rarely come here, mostly hanging around fe forums and facebook groups these days. My 63 is too new fangled technology for this place

Wish ya lived closer, I'd have that joker running down the road already with all the junk I've got laying around here.