Projects 1931 Model A Coupe Y-Block Build (Father&Son)

Yes, so much for the Chinese u- build lakes header kit. I should have known better.
I could get some more material and build my own again but at this point I'm just pissed off enough to order a set from Matt at gear drive, he does a nice job.
I'm taking measurements and getting an order in.

 

Quick update on my coupe. It's almost road worthy, me and my dad are currently fighting an oil leak we can't seem to get to stop. The rear main seal is leaking badly, bad enough to where I can't drive it down the drive way without losing a quart of oil! We've replaced the rear main seal twice and the previous owner of this engine had replaced it in the past as well and still leaked for him. That's the only thing stopping me driving this thing! Anyone have a suggestion?? Thank you again for all of your kind words on my first build, I can't explain how happy I am to finally have my first hot rod almost done! (Well for now, they're never really done) Also very fortunate to have had my dad teach me everything I know about traditional hot rods and helping me build my dream car and my grandfather teaching me how to wire a car and helping me.

On the bright side, all the electrical issues are figured out and the car starts right up and idles. It's running great and sounds great! So things could be a lot worse, it could not even be starting at all! It wants to be on the road but this oil leak has us stumped! So if anyone has any suggestions how to get the rear main seal in a 1955 272 Y Block Ford to quit leaking please let me know!!

Here's some photos of all of the lights working.












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As far as I know, the superior seal to use is a neoprene seal rather than the old rope seal.
That is what Tim McMaster put in when he built my Y Block.
Here is some info on them from Ted Eaton.
http://www.eatonbalancing.com/blog/2008/09/10/neoprene-rear-seal-installation-for-the-y-and-others/

 

Rope seal are a good seal when installed right . I have use them when I could not get a neoprene one to seal due to a worn crank. I have to assume you are installing the side pc and driving in the nail? the narrow part of the side seal goes in the cap so does the nail. you might try some silicon sealer in the slot then push in the side seal then the nail also is the block side of the seal in the right grove (should be the rear most grove.

Even if not done right it should not pore out, Are you sure it is the rear main leaking? Could the oil be running down from up higher like the cam plug or a galley plug

a way to help locate it would be pull the trans and flywheel and pressures the oil system with a tank to make sure there is not another problem

 

That's what we used was the neoprene seal. Thank you for the link though, that'll help us out!! We're going to check out the rear main seal retainer and see if it's warped.


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We used the neoprene seal. We might look into the rope seal. Would it be difficult to do the rope seal with the engine in the car? Yep we did that and we used sealer as well. We're pretty positive it's the rear main seal, I took the flywheel cover off and started up the car while up on the lift and my dad was underneath watching and he's fairly certain it's the rear main seal. I hope it's not the cam plug or galley plug. But I'm not sure if those would be leaking now, they would've been sealed up when the engine was put together I'd imagine! First thing we're going to check is to see of the rear main seal retainer is warped. Thank you very much for your input though! It's helping us figure it out!


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Keep us up to date on how it goes.

 

Will do, probably going to take a look at it tomorrow. Thank you!


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To install a rope seal you need a tool called a sneaky peat it is woven wire tool that basically is like chinse fingers we played with as kids.

I usually drop the main caps and try to pry the crank down just a hair (1/16-1/8") this help kept you from stretching the rope out when pulling it in.
slide the tool in the rear grove and slip the rope (lubed) in the fingers and pull it through (it is a hard pull) .
Torque the mains. do this before you cut the rope it my pull up in the block depending on how far you pried the crank down
Cut the rope levee .01-.03 of the rope at both end and pack it back up in the block

I prefer this type over the one with the clam shell on the end
KD 492, Upper Rear Main Oil Seal remover and Installer ebay #
222357588574
Seller assumes all responsibility for this listing.

 

Yep I used one of those kits in my 272 in the stock ford body, without removing the engine, and it worked fine.

 

Try this.... http://www.eatonbalancing.com/blog/2008/09/10/neoprene-rear-seal-installation-for-the-y-and-others/

 

It's a bugger about the seal. Keep at it. If anybody can figure it out, it's you two.
Looking forward to seeing it at Cobo.
Cheers,
Stewart.

 

Thanks Stewart. We'll get it. We ordered a graphite rope gasket kit from Best Gasket...they're supposed to be the ticket on a used engine.
We're looking forward to seeing you at Cobo too. I wish you were bringing a car so we could hang out all weekend.

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Awesome, thank you. We ordered a rope seal. Should be here Friday and we're gonna give it another shot! Hopefully this time it'll seal!


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Thanks Stewart, one way or another we'll get this thing 100% road worthy. Can't wait! See you then.


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What dad said, wish you were bringing a car as well!


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Can you actually get the crank to drop any when the transmission is still bolted up?

 

alchemy:
Whether it is an auto or standard there is a little movement up and down in all transmission .010-.030 grab the engine side of a torque converter on an auto or the input shaft on a standard and lift up and down you will be surprised just how much movement there is.

All you are trying to do is kept from stretching the rope any more then you have to . This way when you tighten the main bolts it packs just a little more of the seal in the cap. I would use a 3' pry bar and pry down on the counter weight (do not pry on main bearing surface) with one hand on the same side as the rope is going in, and pull the rope with the other hand. Prying down this way also helps you pull the seal in. if you have help you could do it on both sides.

Also make sure it is going in the right grove. If I remember right the block side of a Y-Block has 2 groves the seal goes in the rear most grove closest to the transmission . I have seen it installed in the front grove by one of my customers and it pored out oil when it was running

I have done this on several hundred Cadillac diesels( and others) in the 80 and 90. gm came out with a neoprene seal late 80 and it was a lot easier to install, but I found 30% still leaked and rarely had a rope seal leak. I think it was because the rear main was worn to much.

I love the 350 olds diesel they put in the Cadillac's it paid for my house and made it so I could retire at 52.

 

The same link I posted above

 

Please let us know how this works out and if you use that neat little tool kit for installing it.
http://bestgasket.com/engine_catalog_years.asp?YearsCID=1956-57, 312.......[572-2]

 

Patiently waiting
For good news hopefully.

 

I'll put my .02 in on here too. The homebuilt headers that were on the engine to my coupe when I got it were really hacked together. They were totally made of substandard materials, and most likely were the cause of some big exhaust leaks before we got the lake pipes put on. Moral of the story is make sure you have good quality metal for your headers!! haha

 

Also looking forward to seeing you guys at autorama! is your dad bringing the phaeton? Should be a fun time, and it'll be nice to actually meet you in person finally haha.

 

Thank you for all the advice!! Really appreciate it. Tried putting in the seal the other night and the tool broke, we couldn't get the rope seal through, we were even prying down on the crank. But the tool was absolute crap, Chinese junk we got from Napa, by the style of tool we wanted. Ordered the right tool, should be here today and going to try again tonight. Is it okay if the rope seal is fatter than the groove and doesn't fit in flush? When you tighten it all down it'll just pack that seal down and seal even better than the neoprene seal right? And we are putting it in the right groove, I questioned that as well haha. Thanks again.


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Yes the rope seal will be bigger then the grove it goes in make sure you lube the seal it is a hard pull.
Yes rear most grove this is the one that lines up with the seal in the cap

One other way that might help pull it in would be to turn the crank the direction the seal is being pulled some time help some time not.

When you get enough of the seal out the other end to remove the tool cut the seal at both ends levee around .030 of the seal sticking out.
You will pack this flush with the block .Fold the seal from the out side edge to the center of the seal.
I use a drift pin punch around 1/4-3/16 only go flush do not pack it deeper then the flat surface of the block. You can use a hammer to pack it just do not go deeper then the flat surface.

The cap side, put in the grove and push it in the grove with a large socket of pipe (1 1/2"). push from the edge of the cap to the center then cut off levee a little .005 above cap.

It may look like the seal is laying over the edge of the grove when it is packed in the cap this is normal

Good luck

 

I ordered the KD tools rear main seal tool kit just as future insurance, hoping that by owning the tool I'll never have to use it
In any case I think I will be fine, my Y block was built by Tim McMaster and he ran it in on the test stand, no leaks

I would expect the rope seal to be a tight fit and pack in when tightened for a good seal.
Let us know how it goes.
On a side note, Matt at Gear drive has my headers almost done.

 

Ya I need a set of header for my 28 2dr sdn project sold what was on it for $200 now need $300 more so I can order a nice set this one . been gathering parts for a copal years so I can build one the way I wont it, getting close to starting the build



IT gets a HEMI

 

Tried doing it the other night but the tool broke on us! It was a piece of crap, Chinese junk we got from Napa and not the tool we wanted. Found the right one on Summit, should be here today and going to try again tonight. Hopefully we can seal it up! Also for some reason someone in the past drilled up in the groove??? So it made a divot in the crank, my dad filled it with silicon bronze and filed it down. Thinking that was part of the reason why it was leaking so bad. Hopefully it'll seal up this time!


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Yeah man it's gonna be a blast! No just my coupe, and a friend of ours is coming with us and he's bringing his '29 roadster. Definitely man! Looking forward to it


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Okay yeah it was a very hard pull and that's why the junk tool we got broke. The instructions say don't lube it but we're going to anyway. We also were turning the flywheel while pulling it through, we got it started the other night then the tool broke haha. And just looked at my tracking information, the tool won't be here until Thursday unfortunately, so now I have to wait some more haha. Also is it a good idea to put some silicone on the ends of the ropes where the two meet?


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