Hey Folks! First off, thanks to all the skilled hot rodders who post advice, ideas, pictures and smart-*** commentary on this forum and others. You may not know it, but you've been helping me for years in the shop with my project. Second, thanks to The Jalopy Journal and HAMB for such a professional and good looking venue for all of us to share. So here is where I started, a 52 in decent shape and a 51 in much less decent shape; (see photo below) The 52 (orange) was on the original ch***is but the 51 was on a 70's era 1/2 ton frame with a big block. My plan at the time was to use the original frame and graft in a modern IFS for a better ride. Although that would have worked (maybe), I didn't like the cab mounts or the original engine location and there were heavy modifications that would need to happen for the ride-height I wanted (basically lower than stock nose-bleed height). As you COE folks know; reduced ride height + V8 = cramped cab. Also, I'm not much of a mechanic so the idea of removing panels inside the cab or contorting myself every time i needed to work on the engine was rather off-putting. So that got me thinking mid-engine. Oh, I guess I should tell you what my vision for the truck is; something like this rendering that my 5 year-old sketched..... (ok i drew it ); So I wanted a bed with the same body lines as the panel trucks of that era (more on this later) which would actually mean a relatively short bed (still about 9' long tho). This length of bed would not allow for a conventional drive-train with even a very short drive shaft if I put a V8 behind the cab. After much (too much) research I came upon a solution that some trike and race car guys have used; a direct coupled C5/6 Corvette transaxle! Brilliant, I know! (yes I did look at the Toronado-style FWD mounted on the rear but I felt that would place too much weight aft of the rear axle and I wanted to be as balanced front to back as possible). Beautiful isn't it?! btw, any guesses as to what I have it bolted to? to be continued...
Good guess shopdawg. Its an 8.1l Vortec. Twin turbos have been discussed but I'm getting way ahead of myself. Question: Why an 8.1l? Answer: GM don't make a 9.1!
I'm sorry to say that I cannot see your pics... Are you NOT using a torque tube and bolting the LS directly to the transaxle? What trans? The C5 T56? Will that be up to the task of carrying around a COE? I had originally thought I'd go that route, but ended up with a 4L60E. I also didn't realize until I dis***embled the donor C5 that the T56 was ROD shifted, not a cable as I ***umed. I would have had to figure out how to route the ROD around the motor.
huh, ok it won't let me edit that post so I'm reposting with photos; sorry for the newbie issues, Hey Folks! First off, thanks to all the skilled hot rodders who post advice, ideas, pictures and smart-*** commentary on this forum and others. You may not know it, but you've been helping me for years in the shop with my project. Second, thanks to The Jalopy Journal and HAMB for such a professional and good looking venue for all of us to share. So here is where I started, a 52 in decent shape and a 51 in much less decent shape; The 52 (orange) was on the original ch***is but the 51 was on a 70's era 1/2 ton frame with a big block. My plan at the time was to use the original frame and graft in a modern IFS for a better ride. Although that would have worked (maybe), I didn't like the cab mounts or the original engine location and there were heavy modifications that would need to happen for the ride-height I wanted (basically lower than stock nose-bleed height). As you COE folks know; reduced ride height + V8 = cramped cab. Also, I'm not much of a mechanic so the idea of removing panels inside the cab or contorting myself every time i needed to work on the engine was rather off-putting. So that got me thinking mid-engine. Oh, I guess I should tell you what my vision for the truck is; something like this rendering that my 5 year-old sketched..... (ok i drew it ); So I wanted a bed with the same body lines as the panel trucks of that era (more on this later) which would actually mean a relatively short bed (still about 9' long tho). This length of bed would not allow for a conventional drive-train with even a very short drive shaft if I put a V8 behind the cab. After much (too much) research I came upon a solution that some trike and race car guys have used; a direct coupled C5/6 Corvette transaxle! Brilliant, I know! (yes I did look at the Toronado-style FWD mounted on the rear but I felt that would place too much weight aft of the rear axle and I wanted to be as balanced front to back as possible). Beautiful isn't it?! btw, any guesses as to what I have it bolted to? to be continued...
No torque tube, I direct-coupled (still need to figure out flywheel spacer as I'm about 1/8" short of the torque converter). Its the C5 4L60E. I couldn't figure out the T56 shifter either. I'll need to change the diff gearing on the auto at some point as its the 2.73 and I have fairly big wheels but that's a challenge for later. Wetskier2000, did you direct-couple the 4L60?
The transaxle solves the packaging challenge of fitting the engine behind the cab within a reasonable wheelbase but creates another major challenge; I would need an IRS. I didn't want to go with the corvette IRS because that would make it too car-like and other car-platform IRS's would be silly on a bad-*** COE, right? Fortunately, Ford made (makes) a bad*** truck-platform IRS for the full size Expedition starting in 2003 with a weight rating and towing capacity equal to 1/2 ton trucks - good enough for me as I'm not building a car-hauler! here is the view from the back (while I was shortening my frame) I can't say enough good things about this Ford IRS. The arms are heavy duty cast AL which I plan to polish (a guy could anodize), they have huge disc breaks, tons of travel, lower unsprung weight and are easy to work on. Now all I need to do is figure out how to make the C5 transaxle play nice with the Ford half-shafts. How hard can that be, I have an angle grinder and a flux-core 110V welder! Oh, and support the transaxle... and align the new diff output shafts with the frame penetrations....
Nope, my LS1 is mounted behind the cab (mostly) with the 4L60E and transfer case immediately behind them. My rear driveshaft is about 28" long on a 144" WB. I have a 1993 truck 4L60E and TCase bolted to a 1999 Corvette LS1. It took a conversion flex plate to do it. I suspect that won't help your flexplate issue cuz yours is probably more to do with the differences between the trans/torque tube and the trans/block/bellhousing, whereas mine was new small block/old trans. Should not be a big deal to make the Ford and Chevy half shafts play nice together... Here in NH, there are plenty of shops that could cut, reweld and balance a nice Ford/Chev/Frankenstein result. For mounting the transaxle... Do you have the Corvette rear crossmember? I've since sold mine, but I recall it was a very nice aluminum piece with 4 mounting tabs that could easily be bolted to homemade frame above.
......and there is one thing your are spot on, correct about.... Yeah, this thing will certainly be bad***!
This thread shows how diverse we are. Here we are talking about how to shorten up the drivetrain to make a short truck and on my build I had to think of ways to stretch mine out to get the look I wanted. (sleeper and tandem rear axles)
Yeah, the thing I really love about all the COE's is how open to interpretation they are and the limitless directions you can take a build. We are starting with small cabs with some of the best body lines ever designed in my opinion, and modern components and decades of material in salvage yards give us unlimited flexibility. The more diversity the better!
So regarding the need for a shorter drivetrain, this is the first mock-up I did using the panel truck quarters to make my bedsides. My quarters are from a 1 ton and a suburban of the 47-53 vintage. The 1 ton (that you see mocked up) is the big brother of the original suburbans and 1/2 ton panel trucks. By the way, I looked a long time to find damaged panel trucks so that I didn't have to cut up good trucks. Couldn't afford it and its simply wrong. Here are the donors also. those cuts in the panels are from an axe... Fun fact; this 1 ton was used in a traveling circus and rolled in northern Montana in the 60s and hasn't move since. They used white house paint on it....
I thought the original frame length with the 1 ton bed sides was too long so I shortened the frame 6 1/2" the rear frame section frame rails were pinched and inserted into the from section and welded around the cir***ference. I ground out the weld to separate the sections and trimmed the front 6 1/2", then I re-inserted the pinched rear and re-welded. It was actually very clean. still working on my welding skills.
Proportions look really good.. Ya gotta show us a pic with the outside of the bed panel and the fender mocked up! Quit slackin! What's the frame?
Jake, where are you located? scenery looks familiar... So are you using the whole Expedition ch***is or just the rear?
The white stuff on the body panels is an old house paint that someone slapped on it decades ago as far as I can tell.
I'm using the whole ch***is, heavy modified of course. I'll post some more of the frame mods soon. Jake
That Texas boy meant "white stuff" as in SNOW! You're putting a Chevrolet on a Ford frame?? Oh the humanity! Queue the purists...
too funny. we have had so much of it this year in Montana I don't even notice it anymore! Yes, I should have apologized to the purist in my opening post. Hey, they both make some awesome parts! Who am I to discriminate!
Because life has intruded in a major way I haven't checked in here in way to long. Jake, this build is awesome! I've got two 48 Chevy COE's under construction, and the 51 GMC in my avatar that's about to go for media blasting. I also picked up a very nice Divco a few days ago that I want to start on soon as well. I've been considering C5 Or C6 for both the 51 and the Divco. I definitely want good power and a IRS. I was not even aware that the Expedition had that. Sounds like a great idea, and one I need to investigate further. Thanks for pointing me that way!
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