I don't believe that any 350 used a canister filter but is there a possibility that the block was intended to be used with a canister filter and it now has the byp*** valve to run a spin on and the spin on isn't seating because there is no place for it to seat? I've also seen a couple of engines that someone put an adapter for a spin on and didn't put the stock byp*** valve back and it blew oil all over the place.
I was building a 241 hemi and pumps are hard to find so I went with a used one pulled cover looked good but didn't check the relief valve. Primed the engine using a speed handle I didn't have to turn it very fast to peg a 100 lb. gauge. Look at your filter to see if you ballooned the can.
The byp*** on the pump has to be stuck to get 100 psi. Maybe it has an aluminum piston that seized in the bore. Did you ever pump the oil pump when you first built it? I wouldn't try it again until you check the pump. You can pop the plugs in the block. Take the pump apart and make sure the byp*** valve is free. You might need a different spring if the byp*** piston is free or you might just want to get a new pump with a standard 50 lb byp***. I had an experience with a Pontiac when I worked at a used car dealer. Auction car and we always changed oil when we got them. The car was started on the lot on a cold day and the filter leaked. The instructions on these filters was to tighten as firmly as possible with a wrench. They had a very hard gasket so my first thought was I didn't tighten it enough. I tightened the second one tighter and it leaked from the canister. I installed a Baldwin filter. I started it another cold morning and it didn't leak but after it got warm, the oil pressure light came on. I installed a gauge and the pressure was dropping to 10 psi at idle but would go up to 50 at 3,000 rpm. Dropped the pan and pulled the oil pump which was clogged with nylon teeth from the timing gear that prevented the byp*** spring from moving. There weren't any in the oil pan. Blowing air in the oil pump output in the block I could hear lots of air coming down from the timing cover. Removing the timing cover I found it had a new timing set and the leak was a press in plug that had popped out from the pressure. I tapped the hole for 1/8 pipe and installed a screw in plug.
I'll likely buy a new pump, need recommendation. I was told milling hv55, but I don't think I need a hv filter an approx 330hp 350, do I? I've also read that some question the lower end of the milling pumps not being great. On another thread on another forum, someone mentioned a lot of newer pumps have well mounting point, mine is beefy in that area. If I drop it should I repair or replace? Gears looked good when installed. Yes, I primed it years ago. I checked things this last time by opening it and looking at gears. Can't recall if I thought or knew to check byp***. Also, suggestions on gaskets? I am currently running cork, but I'm sure working on back under car that might prove frustrating. I've seen 1 piece rubber ones, are they good and can I get them for my 1974 block, which I seem to recall using the thinner seal up front and it is two piece rear. Do I use rtv with the rubber..I'm guessing yes in the corners. I can't find my pumps manufacturer yet, bit some paper I had mentioned high volume pumps...is it possible that's my issue? I'll try to post a pic when I pull it, maybe tomorrow. BTW.....this engine has always ran the 5106 filters I believe.
As for the drill, here's the specs... It looks like the no load rpm is 0-1300, so I'd say not as fast as engine spins, but it still had tons of torque. https://www.boschtools.com/us/en/boschtools-ocs/sds-plus-hammers-11255vsr-27668-p/ Obviously, something's causing way too much pressure, it's not the drill....
the rubber gaskets sure make it easier to put the pan back on, in the car. Dab of rtv in the corners is all you should need.
I had a strange problem of similar cir***stances 2 weeks back in the 34. It too has a 327 with a high nickel content block. I believe it is a 64-66 block. I had it machined 21 years ago and dropped it in the roadster. Lots of little stuff over the course of time, but nothing that kept it down very long…. I drove the 34 on a sunday, went to put it away that night, all was well, cept maybe for a drag on the starter???? well on monday when I was going to drive it to breakfast, it was having none of that. It felt like it was missing on 1-2 cylinders???? so while I was checking connections I happened to glance over at the oil filter…. It too was bleeding…. I yanked the valve covers to see if oil was getting to the rockers, yup it was…..Since I have multiple things going on with all of the other cars, I decided to hit this one a couple of days down the road. Yanked the plugs to see if we were oil fouled, They did have gas on them, but no oil. I decided to just go ahead and replace to oil filter with a new Fram PH30. Checked the mounting as well. I filled the new filter with oil and fired the engine up, It cleared out, hit on all 8 again. drove to breakfast then around a bit, then on home. Did the same thing this morning, not sure if there is an issue, but it seemed like the high torque starter was dragging on start up. I think the Optima battery may be 10 years old by now????? could just be coincidence or cir***stance??? We'll see?????
Google Fram filters and then you can decide it's not a good thing to run one. Cut one open if you want. A stock pump is best for stock engine applications. If you have set up the engine with tighter than stock bearing clearances you would be looking for a high pressure pump. If you've set the engine up with larger than stock bearing clearance or if the bearings are worn you would be looking for a high volume oil pump.
My engine isn't stock. It's not a wild motor by any means either. Just a good performance street motor, as explained by machinist. The basic setup is stock heads with valve job etc, bored 60 over with flat top piston, isky cam 270/280, balanced and performer manifold and eddy 4 barrel carb. All said and done machines said approx 330hp for everything done. Originally it was 175hp. So, do I run basic pump or a higher flow...Any harm if higher flow if not required?
330 is closer to stock than not What oil pump? Ask your machinist what clearance he used for the bearings. One more time
Black Moly (molybdenum) ***embly lube after shelf life of 2 years becomes the Anti-Christ to rebuilt engines... Red Line will not turn to what appears to be 'sheeted graphite' after a long shelf life, so that is what I use. I did use Moly for years, only recently had occasion to discover the effects of the Moly after one of my engines was installed in a customer's car after he stored the engine for some years. I recommended we tear it down and clean it before firing it...I must have been psychic. (or cautious) Damned Moly looked like old primer. Washed off, but took some solvent, and much rubbing. Moly on a short run, never to be 'stored'...
Built, yes, torn back down, minus crank and pistons per advise of machinist. He said DON'T touch that you'll open them to more bad than good. Highly respected for years. Guess also didn't go back through valves but be carefully instructed what to look for and returning checked out. It also wasn't a stuck oring, first thing I always check. Grandfather was a mechanic and that was drilled into me at early age. Just dropped pan and pump. It definitely appears it's a stock pressure relief valve. Almost replaced that pump but it looked brand new and per other threads I had a good pump, in quality, so decided to leave it. Two things I'll take away, check pressure relief, not sure I knew to do that and prime it with a mechanical pump attached. Most of my builds in recent years have been two strokes, ranging from small jetski type motors to the v6 evinrude in my b*** boat....no separate oil system. Lesson learned. I'm taking him the pump, opened oil filter, paint filter and pan to inspect. I don't think there is something fyi further worry about but I'll update later. He explained to me also stock pump is best for 5 quart pan on the street, otherwise you end up with all oil in to of engine basically. I realize 330 isn't a huge number, but considering this block was 175 stock, I believe, it's almost double stock. Once she's going and all is good, I'll likely start looking into vortec heads and manifold to get a nice bump I power. Thing is those weren't even out much when this was originally built....Maybe vets!
Once you get a ways past 1hp per cubic inch and rpm well beyond 6000 / then that gets you out of the "stock" territory. Getting 100% more out of your anemic OEM 175hp 350CI engine is a good thing. 20 years ago- 1997. Vortec heads were out on trucks in 1996.
Just got back from machinist. The oil pumps pressure relief was definitely stuck...he thinks for a while, so it must have gotten moisture or something during the sitting for a few years period. Though I looked over the pump and pulled it apart, I don't think I checked that....not sure I was really aware of it, there were no other signs of rust or corrosion anywhere in the motor. Learned something new, I guess. He looked at filter that ran the 1st 6 minutes. I had cut it open and it looks clean from what I can tell and he didn't see anything either. There is a little bit of flakes of gasket material in pan, but he didn't seem overtly concerned about that, either from dropping the pan or remnants that got came off after ***embly, etc. Also at the bottom was some heavier material, but he said it didn't appear to be copper type that would have come from any bearings or even the cam, so he says I should be ok. My guess is probably just the zinc particles built up from draining the oil or as some have suggested maybe it's even the molly lube. Question on that is should I still be worried about any molly lube still in the engine or is it likely all gone after 6min of running it and draining the oil essentially three times and two different filters? I originally filled with conventional oil and additive, got talked out of that online and went with Comp Cams break in oil first go around, then when the leak started, we started dumping in Lucas Hot Rod Oil before shutting it down. On the 2nd startup it was topped up with a few more quarts of Hot Rod Oil, before the next filter blew a gasket. Shut it down, then topped it back up with the oil I had 1st filled with and drained and filtered so that I could run a PSI check. I had put a magnetic plug in the pan and it didn't have anything on it that I could tell. Now with the logic of it being almost stock, I'll go with the explanation, because machinist said almost the same thing....Regarding the Break In Oil, he said treat the motor like basically a stock motor. I don't really need that unless I'm getting to really tight tolerances and really big cams. He said with my setup, I'm fine with conventional oil in the weight I plan to run with the additive. My uncle uncle also said basically the same thing, he just always ran straight oil, never had an issue. Called a local speed shop to inquire if they had the break-in-oil and they said they normally carry it and are out. That guy there said he's gone both routes, with the Break in Oil and with conventional with additive, both same results. Obviously, this is a hotly debated issue and I'm trying to decide which route I'm going at this point. Now I'm just hoping I can actually get a one piece pan gasket and get her closed up tonight and ready to fire depending upon the oil I decide to go with.
Lol, this was figured out in the first post. If it's got 20 year old Molly lube it there you'll more likely than not have problems. Read A****er mikes post again. The cam break in procedure is pretty specific. You've already deviated from it too, necessarily, I understand. So basically you need to to ask yourself if you feel lucky enough to just run the thing.
What I thought it wajunks, see earlier post. Had a stuck one once which pressurized the filter until it exploded, very messy. Glad ya got it fixed. Sent from my VS500 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
I didn't realize the molly lube had a shelf life of 2 years. I'm not sure how old most of what would be in there is, but I do know i used a little from a tube that was in my toolbox to lube a few things, but I also used some new as well. Both the new and the stuff in the tube in toolbox had the same texture and fluidness...if that's a word! The only place the original moly might have been is in the crank bearings and I honestly can't recall if those take moly or not. Like I think I mentioned, I pulled the Cam out, wish I hadn't because once I did, it seemed everything wanted to stick to the old lube and thus I had to clean it (maybe a good thing) re-lube and stick it in. The machinist had sold me a packet of lube for the lifters, i uses the extra for the cam lobes as well. Lifters were all removed and re-inserted, same with rocker arms, etc and even new push rods. Even what I pulled off the cam wasn't like what A****er Mike describes. Maybe since it was pre-oiled and spun a few times over the years, it coated it with oil and protected it. Hmm... Again, I had some new lube and some old lube...the old lube that was in tube may not be 20yrs old, but I'd bet it's 5-10...probably from my Outboard Rebuild. Not real sure, but I checked it again today and it looks ok. Wonder if I should toss it! Maybe the lube is what was in bottom of pan....but again machinist wasn't overtly concerned about it's appearance. His concern was just that it wasn't bearing material. He said put her back together, everything should be ok and start the break in again, make sure to run 20min. I think people have hinted that because it needs 20min total and since I've ran it for 5+min all I need is another 15, but my thought is what does just starting over hurt!?
What exactly do you think the break in procedure is for? What exactly do you think it does? Why does it do that? Why do you need it? Why do you think break in oil is special? What's special about it? Hint- it's not to reach a goal of 20 mins, but it takes about 20 mins to accomplish. Why do you think it's pretty important to fire the engine quickly without excessive cranking and keep it running for 20 mins?
I think it's probably to get rid of the pre-lubes, which I question how long that takes, considering they say if you spin the engine too many times during ***embly you wash that off and lose it's effectiveness. My logic, right or wrong, is that if I spin the engine AT MOST, I'll spin it a fraction of what happens during the 1st minute of break-in, which would be 2000-2500 times. So if spinning it 15 times makes enough of the pre-lube be gone, after the 12000-18000 times it's now spun in 6min of running, it surely is gone or significantly reduced. That said, I think the rest of it is to somewhat, 'lap' the cam lobes and get them seated to the lifters and the heat generated for the 15-30min time frame helps accomplish that. 20min seems to be the average of what people recommend and I'm good with that. Like I said I'll plan on another 20min time frame if not a bit more. I planned 20-30min originally. My main concern is if it was the moly lube that clogged the pump relief valve, hopefully it's gone. Actually in some other research, it seems that the cause for concern there isn't as high as maybe some suggest. Alwater Mike, apparently had some that did go bad and I'm not going to argue that, obviously a good call. Mine looked good....I find that very interesting. I guess time will tell. I'll be the first to admit I'm no expert at building engines, even though I'm capable of doing the work and have done various ones successfully over time. With that said and since I have my overall doubts and since when I ask for advice, even though I might question it, I try to heed that advice. I'm placing an order with summit for more break-in-oil as I'd rather be safe than sorry and another day won't hurt me. I'll likely continue running Lucas Hot Rod oil after that....
I take it you have a Melling oil pump. If the byp*** was freed and cleaned the pump should be good now. I hope none of the oil plugs blew out from the high pressure. Melling makes several versions. Some come with 2 or more springs to allow you to choose the pressure you want. I always liked to run the main and rod bearings a thousandth looser than most do. I used high volume standard pressure pump to keep the maximum pressure under 40 psi so it didn't blow too much oil into the top end. The high volume helps keep the pressure up when the oil thins out as it gets hot. Racing engines run at higher than normal rpm so the stock pump pushes more volume then, or tries to. The standard pickup can restrict the flow. The problems can come when the engine is slowed while the oil is hot. Having more volume than needed will create heat. The higher the pressure, the more heat created. Modern engines run higher pressures and thinner oil. With a 35 lb relief, not much heat is created. A 70lb relief creates more heat.
Yes, it was a melling, I opted to buy a new one for the $40 or so the machinist wanted. He said old likely ok as well, BUT....we both agreed why chance it again. It's not hv, he said he wouldn't recommend for this engine. He basically machined everything, I'll go with his opinion there. I'll keep they other one as a spare or something. I see no signs of anything else being blown out.
Is there a way to know about the plugs without tearing everything down? I figure the oil i just drained out and filtered through paint filter should be clean as most it never ran more than a minute and the rest was just added do i could test oil pressure, so I'll likely re add that oil to test pressures before getting and installing the break in oil and a new filter. If I get good pressure, I guess I'm safe?
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