Technical ***April 2017 Banger Meet - No Fooling!***

I hope...with planning...to have noise, not just artistic silence. Ordered main caps and bolts. Have a line on a machine shop. Going to attack the rotating stock first. Then, due to impending circumstances, it will have to wait in the corner.

 

If the gasket overhangs the bore you have a "Glow plug" motor......

You can email them in English and mail from Poland is cheap

 

any of you guys going to the FAST hill climb in auburn , ca. ?

 

In order to use solid head gaskets you must use a wire or step for sealing the combustion chamber.
Of course, as Bluto mentioned, the deck and head must be as flat as possible. I have recently had two heads that were machined "flat" that were not acceptable so off to Blanchard grinding.
The solid copper gasket approach is only necessary in high compression motors, say above 10:1 in a Model A/B motor. Other motors can get away with higher CR but the Mod A is too thin.
Steve Serr of Miller High-Speed Head fame has a nice gasket made with SS fire rings on composite/graphite material.

Oh, and something to take heed to, recently had a re-pop Winfield Alum head that was broken in half. Well not that dramatic, it was cracked down the middle between the dist hole and far side stud. Evidently when installed one time it was over torqued in the center and cracked. It was about .020 off on each side and probably only good for hanging on the wall.
J

 

Great month so far!!!! There is a lot of good information.

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Thank you everyone for the information on gaskets. Part of the thought behind using a custom head gasket (read: thicker...which I assumed as solid) is to help ensure flow over the top of the valve. I maybe going down the wrong path, but my logic was that due to the low internal height (8:1 static, flathead v8 style, no pent) of the combustion chamber and the limited amount of material on the top of the CC, that by using a thicker head gasket it would be able keep the flow over the top of the intake valves (unshrouded.) The sides of the CC have plenty of material and could be fly cut out as needed. Going to have a full custom cam ground from a new blank, target RPM will be around 3 - 3.5k max rpm, so wont be limited on lift and end up jacking up the ramp speeds.

Is there a target minimum clearance from the edge of the valve to the sides and top of the CC to allow for better flow? memory says it was 1/4"?

 

glowplugs are like dual sparks? more powers?

 

No, more like uncontrolled combustion timing.
Diesels and Top Fuel motors come to mind..............

J

 

uncontrolled combustion power events! I'll take double! will have powers coming from everywhere!

 

And a broken crank.......

 

I'm going to the FAST Nor-Cal hill climb in Auburn on Saturday April 29!

 

Figured out what the rattle was in my motor last week!

3 loose exhaust seats and a fourth that looks like its about to give. The engine was built in '45 so I'm guessing the warranty is expired. I went through all my running when parked motors and found one that might work for a reconditioning. It's .080 over I'm going to put new valves and springs in it. A Snyder head and a '34 cam and lifters I got from a buddy. I've already adjusted the crank with one shim left. Also have a lightened flywheel and V8 clutch on the shelf for this one. I think I'm going just rebuild a stock trans for this car, the other car has the 5spd. This is for my touring "stock" car so I like to keep it stockish

 

bummer on the valve seat !

steve I kinda knew you were going

 

I read of a guy that actually asked if Allmetal or JB Weld work work for that!!

 

I for one am amazed that you can hear rattling in the motor, I do everything I can to not hear noises in the motor, I'm scared..........

 

OH! I'VE DONE THAT! I was dumb enough to do it twice before I figured it out!

 

The late Jay Steel used JB Weld to put in an addition web for a camshaft. I guess it worked. I didn't hear that it failed.

 

I guess it was either very effective or there was no load on it which rendered it useless

 

Or heat OR solvent .......... OR..... bad luck

 

I take it that the conversation surrounding valve shrouding/relieving in a flat motor is verboten in the month banger forum?

 

Re Is there a target minimum clearance from the edge of the valve to the sides and top of the CC to allow for better flow? memory says it was 1/4"?
I don't think there is any problem , hopping them up is most of what happens here, but I think 1/4 of an inch would lose you more in compression than it would gain. I think it is more of a shape and balance thing than a particular distance, I have never fought the dual gremlins of compression vs flow on a Model T motor though!! IMHO The real answer to flow and efficiency is positive pressure in the inlet tract .

 

I don't think verboten, more of been there done that.
You can read Riccardo's book, look at many different designs, it is all a compromise.
I can tell you that some designs will flow more air than others, at the cost of compression.
I am playing now with camshaft more than chamber design.
J

 

fair enough. been out of this for years at this point. just need to know what I shouldn't bother with.

 

I think the valve job angles are really important. I remember flowing some "Blended" valve faces and seeing just how much flow was destroyed by smoothing all those sharp angles. The relationships are often the opposite of what one would think. Please understand there is a reason there are almost no modern flatheads in use beyond your lawn mower.

 

It made a loud clacking noise. For like 6 month while I continued to drive it

 

Without going into too much detail, at least on the Briggs motors (stock class alky race) the valve height and seat placement was critical. Along with that, the proper valve spring setup for the rpm desired.
The Mod "A/B" heads have a couple issues including the placement of sparkplug in the chamber (location).
I think the most important concern on that 8 port block is going to be getting the intake manifold correct.
There was a picture of a manifold that will not compliment the block porting and there will be more gain there than anywhere else.

J

 

100% agreed. Looks pretty, maybe used for mock up or most likely trading stock. Simple math on that system would show the total length to be around 24" (from underside of the intake valve to the mouth of the carb, which would give an optimal harmonic frequency for an RPM range of 4,200 - 5,200. Not really the best. I haven't looked into the volumes yet. The carb side is 1 1/2" the block side of has been milled and ported to align to the block. Again, with no math, it would seem that the it could support a very high intake velocity. With an expected operating RPM range of 2 to 3.5k, the smaller diameter may not be all that bad.

 

Dan McEacherns' main caps came today. Off to the machine shop.


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I like the way you slipped that eiseman/matco magneto drive setup into the picture.

 

just put an early 9N back together to work again.....sold it to some happy guys that want to do a little farming.....the great niece on it...trying to start it !.