Technical Update on the wagon

After Brenda's wagon died at the red light last Wednesday I decided to ditch the Pentronix distributor and replace it with a Ford points type distributor.

Not having one on hand I bought a new distributor, cap, spark plugs & wires and installed everything, the points were set and a drive around the block seemed the thing to do,everything worked as it should....Until this morning when the car wouldn't start and it was time for the boss lady to go to work!

I was going to log in this morning and start asking for help because I could not figure out what had happened between yesterday afternoon and today,a quick check of the points and they were burnt like they were on the car for years.

Then I had a epiphany, or a brain fart and realized that I failed to replace the 50,000 volt coil and that was what probably fried the points,I removed it and made a quick trip to the parts house.

I replaced the coil and took the wagon for a spin and stopped at Brenda's shop and picked up my truck and left her the wagon,she got home about a hour ago and said the wagon ran great,happy wife,happy life! HRP

 

Do you still have a ballast resistor in the system, Danny? It's essential when you go back to a points distributor.

 

...................I know that you are fully aware of that. It's just one of those things that are easily over-looked if the ballast resistor was eliminated when the Pertronix was installed. Without it you will continue shortening points life even with a coil of lesser voltage.

 

I hope you bought NAPA, the heavy duty Echlin stuff, and I hope you bought a spare points and condenser. The quality you were used to when everybody had points is not there anymore. Get ready to reset the gap and the dwell again pretty soon, after the rubbing block wears a bit. Might have to do it twice until it takes a " set". Ever wonder why nobody ever made a Ford distributor with Chevrolet points so you could set the dwell with it running? Good luck

 

Point sets have gotten to be kinda expensive also.

 

Danny I have had so much trouble with the points I get from Napa that I took a set out of an old distributor I had and polished them up. No problems now have over 8000 miles on them! I have a resistor in my system and the correct coil the contact on the movable arm on my points fell off No more Napa points for Me.

 

Probably what fried the Pertronix too.

 

The coil is also a Pertronix piece designed for the distributor.HRP

 

I do.

No NAPA or discount auto parts point's and yes they are a whole lot more expensive than the last set I bought.

I used Accel points. HRP

 

Not sure how it is today, but when I worked for Echlin in the dim , dark past Echlin points = Accel points.

Accel was Echlin's high performance line and their stuff was built, in most cases, to the same specs as standard passenger car replacement parts.

 

I've been trouble free with my stock Ford distributor with the Pertronix conversion for over 5 years now. Am I just lucky? Is there a high failure rate? I see people reporting failures but I never hear of any reasons for failures. It's always, that's it back to the points! Would anyone have any actual numbers on the % of failures? Is there a life expectancy of a Pertronix unit?


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These points seem a bit more heavy duty than the ones I use to use. HRP

 

I hope you get many more years service from yours,I always ask the same questions and at that time I was lucky,I had good luck until last Wednesday and then it ran out.

In my case the module was fried.

I could have replaced the module but I am planing a road trip and it's just one less thing to worry about,I can change points on the side of the road,not so easy with the Pertronix II. HRP

 

Yup... what he said. The coil output to the plugs is secondary voltage. What the points see is primary voltage. That's full battery voltage to the points when cranking and a couple volts less when running, courtesy of the ballast resistor.

 

Danny .GLAD you got her running again.Bruce.

 

Great you made Brenda happy. More important than fixing the wagon.
I remember changing points on my cars once a year. They normally just needed a filing. So cheap back then didn't bother.
Wish I still had all those throw-always.

Don't forget, if your coil is internally resisted you won't need a resistor.

 

Danny ,I'm tellin' you again ....It was that darn E-clips and them gamma rays....Next trip in the wagon ,put on a tinfoil hat...

 

mine went out using a msd coil , thought I had the right ohm coil , but I guess not , had to do a lot of looking to make sure I had the right coil for the Pertronix II . the Pertronix I , the first one they had , does not seem to be as bad about burning up . If you are running a sbc , you can get a new unit with the Pertronix I in it , from Jegs , I could not find one at Summit , not so lucky for a 302 ford . I tried to get the I to replace the II in my dist. with no luck . put the II back in and replaced the coil with a Pertronix coil , at below 6 ohms and so far doing OK .

 

Sorry for your troubles, Danny. I have been getting my coils from Bubba's Danny - as for the Pertronix, I am using the Ignitor II, Bubba's coil and a ballast resistor in my roadster. So far that has been trouble free but I do carry spare points distributor, just in case.

I hope my wife's 40 pickup will be ok for her - it's always a concern for sure when the wife leaves with a vehicle I've built for her ....

 

Tin foil hat - check. HRP

 

Key on but not running for a few min.{an if points are closed*} like playing radio what ever,can cook point. So be sure radio is only played on "ass."if not running motor. Just a note for some younger guys.
* if points are open,an motor not running but radio playing with key in run.then they can get away with playing radio an not fry points=they think its OK to do it,up tell that time they try it an points just happen to be closed. Thats the Why of"Ass" on the key

 

50,000 volt coil shouldn't make a difference, the high voltage is on the secondary side of the coil, the points are on primary side.

That said, there can be flyback voltage induced by a misfire, which can generate high voltage on the primary side, but that is what the condenser is there for, or one of the reasons anyway, and why it is rated at such a high voltage. And these days, the condenser is the weak link in the system. I still don't think you've improved the reliability of your car, you've just changed the break down process.

 

I have been questioned about the ballast resistor and since the car was wired for the electronic ignition it was not required,change over to points does require a ballast resistor amd not wantingto do any rewiring I opted to use a coil with a builtin resistor,and to be honesty I wasn't aware they existed but every thing seems to be working well.

Hopefully I will get some more driving time in when the ruminates of hurricane Harvey move on out. HRP

 

I installed a Pertronix in the Chrysler, and there is a step for measuring resistance across the coil to determine if a ballast resistor is needed. My coil was in spec without a resistor. But it was very close; in fact my coil was in spec either with or without the ballast! So I kept it, to simplify a switch back to points if needed (and make the job simpler ).

 

I've been recycling old points for years. I just polish them up and use them. I've thought about that Petronix route but it hasn't got past the thinking stage. Is there a high failure rate? My brother put Petronix in his rare propane fueled 1100 Massey because he couldn't keep a set of points in it. They would fry in short order but so far he's had good luck with the Petronix. I learned about frying points with the switch left on accidentally when the kids were little and they were playing on the 9N Ford tractor. They left the switch on and by the time I noticed it they were fried along with all the plastic parts on the plate they were mounted to. Just that plate at the time was $60 but I took it down to NAPA in Creston, Iowa and those guys fixed me up with plastic parts and new points for just a few dollars back then. It was one of those early front distributor engines so it was a real pain to change.

 

The thing about the Pertronix is they are fantastic until they leave you on the side of the road without warning,I had the same set up in my old deuce pickup and it worked flawless for the 8 years I owned the truck and never a problem.

That's the reason I used it on the wagon,I had heard of problems in the past but I surmised I had a newer, improved unit and those days were over.

With the Pertronix II to replace a module you have to remove the distributor to change the module and I just don't want to get that involved should it happen again. HRP

 

I've been running the old Ford Dura Spark for close to 138K miles (since 1980) in my street rod. The goo has run out of the module but it keeps on hitting it hard! I do carry a spare with me, just waiting for this one to fail....it's a "how long will the darn thing last" thing.....

 

I now have another 100 plus miles on the wagon and everything is working great,I was a little hesitant about the coil with the built in ballast but I have talked to others that have used them with any problems. HRP

 

On my 55 IH farm tractor I went with one of those resistor coils last year, so far no problems. It had an old yellow top Ford coil on it and I never did find a resistor on it anywhere, been rewired sometime in the past, and it would run fine until the coil got hot, then it would lose power. Never has burned the points in the 5 or so years I've owned it. It has cut many acres with the bush hog with the old Ford coil and now 2 years with the resistor coil. I have taken the dist cap off and oil ran out of it, the hydraulic pump also drives the dist and oil pushes past the seal, the points, rotor and cap would be soaked in oil but still firing!

 

Is the, made in China, auto replacement parts factory just down the road from the Harbor Freight tools factory?