Technical New Quickchange Parts for Old Style Hot Rods

Maybe that's my gold track. It's been so long, I forgot.


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Randy, no it's not your Gold Track, as you have a Winters Triple Track. It was ready to be installed in your QC but now has to be narrowed to use with the new center and side plates. Soon, my friend, soon! It will be worth the wait

Just to let the rest of you in on the story. Randy has never seen his Quickchange and never will. He bought a complete rear from a fellow Hamber and a differential on that auction site, and had them both sent here. Recently, I was able to work a trade between him and another customer so he wound up with all aluminum castings and the other guy with magnesium. With the change to aluminum came the side plate adapters which require narrowing of the differential. I wish I had bought the Triple Track.
QUICKCHANGE EXCHANGE get it?

 

EDIT:
I HAVE DISCOVERED THAT SOME ASSEMBLIES WITH HALIBRAND CASES NEED TO HAVE THE CARRIER NARROWED SLIGHTLY MORE THAN INDICATED IN THE DRAWING BELOW. THIS MAY BE DUE TO VARIATION IN PINION DEPTH WITH SOME BEARING COMBINATIONS. JUST TO BE SAFE, I NOW RECOMMEND THAT YOU NARROW EACH SIDE AN ADDITIONAL .050" - .060". THIS GIVES A 'B' DIMENSION OF .690" - .700" AND A 'C' DIMENSION OF 4.250" - 4.260".

BRUCE 10/16/2017

Okay, I'm back with details on narrowing a differential to be used with Quickchange adapter side plates. I have done a number of these over the years but just worked from crude sketches and memory and a yard stick. But, I thought if I was going to publish this information, I should recheck dimensions and verify fits. The most common combination is using the Halibrand center section and one of the 'Trac' differentials.

I have several examples of both items in my inventory right now. So, checking for consistency and clearances was just a matter of measuring. The sketch below shows the finished dimensions allowing for about .030" of shims on each side. Note that the Halibrand center measures right at 4.375". Measuring 8 or 9 cases they were all within .002" of each other. That is great consistency, in my opinion. There are other manufacturers that use that 4 3/8" case but I don't know how close they held their tolerances. (CAE, ARC, Benson)
As mentioned before several manufacturers have made the 'Trac' style limited slips. The original Ford differentials used a 2.000" carrier bearing journal diameter. As the various limited slips became available, that size was carried over. Somewhere along the way, Winters started making their carriers with 2.031" journals on aluminum spools and differentials. The steel ones remained at 2". This poses no real problem, as both bearing sizes are readily available and combine with the same race. I mention this here as a matter of information. Not all differential manufacturers used this convention. There are 2.000" carriers in aluminum. You need to know which size so you can get the correct bearing cones. SIZE DOES MATTER! Try to save the old bearings when you remove them. You can hone the inside diameter to make a nice pair of set-up bearings. (if you ever set-up a QC without them, you will definitely get 'em for the next one you do)
Referring to the sketch:
The most critical dimension is "B" the distance from the face of the ring gear to the left side bearing journal. You don't want to cut more than you need to here. The .750" dimension should allow enough shim to adjust the preload. The "C" dimension is less critical but better to machine a little extra than not enough. If you leave this too long, you will not be able to adjust the backlash. One of the main reasons Quickchanges got a reputation for being noisy is that WAY TOO MANY were set-up with WAY TOO MUCH backlash. Again, this should give you about .030" to shim.



Now, lets address the narrow case:
Halibrand never intended for his plates to be used with a 3 3/4" center section. I have narrowed spools to enable this combination but the differential creates some interesting challenges. Be careful here, as if you get too carried away you can wind up with some expensive door stops. I've done this a couple of times before and it worked out nicely. But, I have not done every combination possible. There are differences in the differentials from various manufacturers. My suggestion is that you wait to do the actual machine work until I can post some pictures with detailed descriptions and cautions. If you are or have a competent machinist, then by all means have at it. And, post pics and details of what you did and what you learned doing it.
Here is what I found in measuring several cases. Winters and Frankland all measured within plus or minus .002" of 3.736" so that is what I used as my mean. I had a couple of others that measure between 3.728" and 3.740". Not a bad spread but you may want to check your actual case. If it is wider than my spec, you will need to use more shims or cut your diff less. If it's narrower, less shims or cut more. BE CAREFUL HERE!
If you make the "B" dimension .430" from the original ring gear face, you will notice that the shoulder for the carrier bearing will be gone! Not really a big problem until you decide to change that bearing. You won't be able to get the jaws of a puller behind the bearing. So, you will have to cut it off. It looks like a good compromise is to cut the ring gear side about .060" and then measure the .430" from the new surface. This will allow you to at least get a bearing separator behind the bearing in the future. Don't go overboard here or you will compromise the strength of the carrier and allow the ring gear to flex.
The 'Tracs' have Allen bolts that hold the aluminum end caps to the steel center. Due to their height, they may interfere with the bearing race on the wide cases. I normally replace these with hex head cap screws. On the narrow centers, more drastic measures may have to be taken. I'll follow this up with pictures of the actual machining process and further explanation, shortly.

As far as other differentials are concerned, stay tuned. I have several to do and will document the challenges and solutions.

 

Real good info thanks for taking the time to write this up.

 

Thanks Bruce. I have been through the drill with the ones I have done. Thankfully, we have a good machinist that has several years experience doing this process. It would be nice if a new unit could be offered that doesn't require machining.


You can see how the cut is made and the Allen head bolts installed for clearance. This was a DPI that I purchased off ebay. I talked to them about offering the unit but they said the demand was to low.

 

Lynn,
Do you know if they cut down the sleeves that locate the end plate?. I don't know how you could sink the Allens that far without shortening the sleeves. Those appear to be full height bolts.

 

Bruce, I don't know as they put it all together and I never opened it up after Frank put it together. It is still working great and loud.

 

Just an update on these side plates:

I have one pair of 12 bolt plates left from the initial production run, no 11 bolt. More castings are on order and I should have more plates soon. My original intention was to sell the HAMB pre-orders and then list the remainder on various sites. However, you guys stepped up and I don't have any to list, yet. I just want to say a big
THANK YOU!!!!!
to everyone who trusted me to get this done.
I am taking orders now for the next batch. HAMB Members and Alliance members get special pricing. Let me know if you are interested, as I need to determine the mix of 11 and 12 bolt versions.

Still working on having magnesium plates cast. If that is something you would be interested in, let me know.

Thanx again,
Bruce

 

My plates came today. I'm very impressed.

Just wish Bruce had them when I came by his shop a year ago and he set up my Franklan with Ford 3/4 ton truck bells. Even so, there is no substitute for a lesson from the master.

 

Finally got some pictures of the process for narrowing a differential for a Quickchange with side plate adapters. This one is a Winters Triple Track. I am planning to do a TruTrack style shortly and will post it, too. This was the first time I used the Triple Track in this conversion. It is made from a Billet (sorry guys, I know that's not traditional). What this means is that you have to chuck up the whole differential case. Not a problem, but other styles can be done differently.
You can do this in any 8" or larger lathe as long as you have the ability to center the housing and eliminate any runout. A 4 jaw chuck will let you dial it in, but I have done several with a 3 jaw. You could also turn it between centers. I recently ground the jaws on my 3 jaw and it is dead nuts. I always use a live center to support the other end.
What I do is lightly clamp one end in the 3 jaw and run the live center in to center everything up. Then, tighten the chuck. You don't have to overdo this. As long as it doesn't slip it's tight enough. Then I indicate the ring gear surface. If it runs out more than .0005" I reclamp or shim until it is under that value. In this case, I would estimate that the runout was less than .0002". If you can get it better than this, more power to you. If the ring gear surface is messed up, you can take a very light cut. I have only had to do this a couple of times. When I did, I dial indicated both of the bearing journals before cutting the RGS.
I then put a 1/2" tool bit in the holder and square it up with the ring gear surface. Then move the carriage the exact distance to the new location of the bearing shoulder. In this case it was 4.31" + the .50" width of the tool bit. (See post #183 above) I have a dial readout on my lathe. If you have a digital read out (DRO) you can use that. You can do this with a scale if need be. If you cut it a little short, you can shim the bearing. If you leave it too long you may have to reset it up and cut more. A few thousandths short is better than a few thousandths long. Don't overdo this, though.
Anyway, start the lathe and make a marking cut into the surface. Then change the tool bit to one that you can carve away all the unwanted material.
Once you get down close to the diameter of the bearing journal start measuring. I leave about a .002" press fit for the bearing. In this case the final diameter was 2.033". I have a set up bearing that I use to check to be sure it is a slip fit. If you leave this diameter too large, you will fight putting the bearings on and may actually bend the housing. If is tight but too close to take another cut with the tool bit, you can use sandpaper to take the last half thou or so off.

You can put a small radius at the bearing shoulder step, but make sure the bearing and shims will seat on the shoulder.

I turn the differential around in the lathe to do the opposite end. You can do it in one set-up, but I find it is easier to work from the tail stock end. You an cut the long snout off or leave it. Just be sure to leave enough for the seal to run on.

My experience is that it is best to disassemble the differential to do this work. As an experiment, I left one together and taped it up to prevent chips from getting inside. It worked, but I wound up disassembling it because it bothered me and I needed to inspect the condition of the internals anyway.

A word of caution here. The Winters Triple Track can be narrowed to fit in a 4 3/8" wide center section with adapter side plates. I don't believe that there is enough material on the left side to allow for cutting it to the necessary dimension to use it in a rear end with the 3 3/4" housing width, when using the adapter plates. There is a counter bore that receives a thrust plate which would make the wall between that and the bearing journal way too thin.

 

Thanks for the photos. What is the charge for doing that process? We have a place near me that does that process reluctantly, but for a price $$$ will do the operation when not busy. The whole process with furnished parts and them setting the QC up runs about $600.

 

Lynn
I'm guessing he builds a little insurance money into his machining quote, I sure would.
A 1/2 thous. oops can ruin a guys day (and bottom line) real fast, and I know, it shouldn't matter but when a customer supplies (one) part that can't be replaced easily or cheaply it kind of takes the motivation out of taking on these kind of jobs.

 

The information in this thread is greatly appreciated, thank you.

 

Lynn,
I have been charging $100 for the machine work plus any parts required (bolts, washers, shims etc.) I'm going to have to raise this to take in to consideration disassembly and reassembly time.

Assembling and setting up the rear - $200. This is setting the pinion preload, carrier preload, R&P backlash. Any parts or hardware required is extra.

I'm trying to get away from the building process as it takes up a lot of time and the shipping is a PITA.

Some of the things guys don't think about are: replacing studs in a Halibrand case. There are 24, 3/8" and 12, 5/16" studs in a center. You can't buy the originals anymore. So, if you want to have them all match ('cuz they never do) you have to replace them all. Easily an hour. Another is thread repair. Helicoils and other methods work fine, but they take time. And then there is broken pinion nose bearing supports. After 37 years of doing this, I finally have a way to remachine these after welding. So, I'm looking at doing the repairs, selling parts and leaving the assembly and time consuming details to the customer.

To DDDenny's point;
Yes, when I'm doing a modification on a one off part, it gives me a knot in the stomach. The one saving feature of cutting down a QC differential is that many of them start out with 2.031" dia. bearing journal. Fortunately, the other common size is 2.000" diameter. So you get two chances on this one.

 

It's getting close, I can taste it.

 

Yep!

 

You really need to get your book to the publisher. Then, instead of posting your secrets on the HAMB, you can just collect royalties.

 

Third option is a prick punch and bearing retaining Loctite

As a first year machinist, when I sheepishly had to show a screwup (mine) to the leadman, he says, do you know how to tell an apprentice from a journeyman.
A journeyman knows how to hide his screwups!

 

I have always thought highly of Bruce. I think he's just been tied up with family and stuff. He answered my question.

 

Anyone contemplating using the H852 side plates (Halibrand or mine) on a 3 3/4" center section. Please contact me before you start cutting down the differential. I just finished doing this and have discovered some idiosyncracies that need to be addressed. I can save you a lot of time and probably some money. This is not hard, but it's not a slap together deal. Real hotrodding!

 

Bump for corrections in post #183.

 

Bruce,
Great thread you have going, thanks for compiling and sharing.

Do you have any new pics of current QC projects you can share?


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I'm kinda tied up with some personal stuff right now.
Have a couple of unusual projects in the works and will post up progress pics when I can get back to them.

Thanx for the interest,

Bruce

 

Bruce,

Hope all is well... can you post pics of some of those unusual project pics?


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I'm waiting for some castings to come back from the polisher. I'll have pretty neat one to share.

 

Did you get those castings back? We are all anxious to see this new project you’ve been working on....


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No, the polisher needs a tune-up.

I'm cleaning the shop! I don't know who put all that stuff in there.
I even threw some things out. (not that much really)

Since the new build will not be utilizing the repop side plates, it will be in the Quickchange Quick Change thread
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...ange+quick+change&o=relevance&c[title_only]=1

 

Attention Australian HAMBers. Have I got a deal for you!

I screwed up and sent a set of 11 bolt side plates to a guy in Western Australia. He was supposed to get 12 bolt units.

Get with me if you can use them and we'll work something out.

 

A little off topic but I want to show off my 6 pin knock off hubs for the rear. I am not making them to sell. Just got lucky a friend sold me a pair of unfinished 6 pin front hubs. Johns Industries made the axles for me in lightening fast turn around speed. Perfect fit and very reasonable.