Technical Gas Welding - new set up, recommendations

Looking for advice on a gas welding set up. I have nothing at this point but an old torch handle, guages, and line, cutting tip and 3 sizes of rosebuds. All this is sized for plate steel. Working condition unknown.

I want to get set up to start learning sheetmetal gas welding, I can mig weld and have done panel replacement, Ive brazed and used torches on plate steel. Got enough tig training to lay an acceptable bead on flat steel plate.

Wanna step up my game. What do I need.

Tanks, cart, probably a new torch and guages.

Can I use a standard medium duty torch handle with a 00 or 000 tip to learn gas welding. Decide from there if I want to invest in a dedicated small torch for sheetmetal.

Im guessing victor compatible is he way to go, unless you guus recommend something else.

Thanks for any feedback, gotta spend some money and want to get the right equipment.

 

I just went on Craigslist and got a Miller sidekick with a cart and some wire for $300, and got a helmet and supplies from tractor supply.That way if you change your mind your not out to much money.

 

I'd spend the money on a genuine Victor set rather than a off-brand (BTDT, never again). It's generally just as cheap or cheaper to buy a 'set' than it is to buy it piece-meal. If you have smaller bottles, two-stage regulators are nice to have but not required. Victor's 'medium' handle is a nice size and tips are readily available.

 

Check out Meco Midgets and lightweight hoses from TM Technologies. LOVE mine.

 

I recommend mid size torch handle, 3 or so tips spaced from smallest to larger, 2 stage gauges and a cutting torch.
All from a reputable manufacturer.
This setup will cover most automotive requirements and last a life time or more.

 

I second the motion for Victor. There is a huge difference in quality from the "Victor" copies that are out there. Don't ask me how I know!

 

I have three torches that I use and like. My favourite for sheet metal, up to and including 1/16 inch, is the Smith aviation torch, and a close second are the Gloor, and the Henrob (which I think is now called the Cobra III).
I have Victor two stage gauges, and I prefer the small hoses, because I don't use the torch for heavy cutting.
I use the Henrob for cutting as well. It has two types of dedicated cutting attachments, one for doing sheet metal, and the other for up to 1 inch. It does an excellent, clean cut with no slag. The heat is concentrated at the cut, so there is a minimum of warpage.
The extra neat feature, is that for welding, the pressure for both gases is 4 psi. This saves a lot of gas.
Anyone that can TIG weld, can catch on to oxygen- acetyline welding in short order. Make a puddle, insert rod into puddle. There are a ton of excellent videos on youtube for the Cobra torch and on how to weld.
Even though I have MIG, TIG, and stick welders, I still use the torch regularly.
I forgot to mention that I do have a Victor torch, with tips and the cutting attachment, but it doesn't get used any more.
good luck
Bob

 

Check out the Gas Suppliers in your area about bottles and cost. Here I can not get private bottles filled at all. Other places charge you a monthly fee for the bottles. Here I put down a $300 deposit per bottle and only pay for the gas when I swap them out. Could be 10 years from now. I get my $300 back when I give up the bottle.

 

Was in your exact place a couple years ago. Had a bunch of odds and ends I had been given, swap meet, etc. Time to make a change.

Spent a lot of time on Craigslist shopping but everything was either cheap to begin with or looked like it had been used hard, a lot. Nothing worth spending my money on.

Decided to try to do it right. Bought a Hobart (Victor) knockoff at a tractor supply store, got new mid sized bottles and a cart. Torch was a nightmare! Never consistent. Might work fine for 5 minutes,, a half hour or not at all. Did a bunch of online searches and found the Hobart Victor copy stuff is kind of hit and miss. Sold all the Hobart stuff at the Pate swap meet and told the guy upfront I didn't trust the torch handle/mixing head and why (he was fine with it, just wanted gauges and hose he had a good head already so everyone wins!). Got about 2/3 of my money back and learned a lesson.

Went to a local welding supply store and got a salesman to walk me thru the choices. The first store pulled one off the shelf and told me it would solve all my problems for the rest of the life and started to walk to the counter to get my money. If it sounds like they are just trying to sell you what they have on the shelf go to another store. The second one I went to was willing to order in anything they didn't have in stock and drop ship it to me. Ended up with a very nice Smith torch for just slightly more than the cheapo Hobart setup. Very happy with it.

My advice is go to a welding supply store and explain what you want to do and where you want to expand to in the next couple of years. Use their knowledge. Be prepared to spend some money so you have a setup that can grow with you and last.

SPark

 

Here is a link to the youtube video of the Cobra torch.



Bob

 

I made the decision to buy my own bottles, and the cost was approximately $250 per bottle. I can just take my bottle to one of the local depots, and exchange for a full bottle, no inspection fees and no hassle. I also have an oxygen bottle that I bought in 1970, that is a pain in the butt, because it requires an inspection every 5 years. This costs more than the refill.
Rentals can be expensive, but if you are running a shop, and are using a bottle per month, then you don't run into demurrage (rent), which can really add up quickly.
Bob

 

I don't know about other places around the country but in the Portland and las Vegas area you can take in your private bottle and they will exchange them for full bottles and all you pay for is the gas. Places like Air Gas inspect their own bottles so I've never had a problem with them even looking at the expiration date. I've bought bottles from auctions and taken them in and exchanged them. They will also take a 75/25 bottle and exchange it for a 98/2 or 100% and still you only pay for the gas. As for oxy-acet welding, I would make sure I had check valves in the hoses, you don't want to blow yourself up.

 

Pick up a pair of back flow preventer check valves. Attach to your regulators and then attach the hose. Cheap insurance.

 

Most equipment now has them built in.

 

Although I arc, mig and tig weld, I'm happiest with my results when gas hammer welding. Taught by my Dad who was a journeyman Auto Metal Mechanic (Canuckese for Bodyman) ,at an early age. I admit I found it cumbersome, but persevered, using his very vintage equipment. When I started setting up my own shop in the early 70's, I bought my first Victor welding set. I was amazed at how much easier it was to maintain and control the perfect cone and my welds looked cleaner. I then stepped up to a Victor Model J, a very well balanced, compact torch handle with upfront controls. Again, blown away by the difference. My last improvement was over 25 years ago, when I added a Gas Saver with pilot light. As far as I'm concerned, I have come as close to perfection as possible, the rest is up to me.
"It's a piss poor mechanic, who blames his tools"

 

They originally were called Dillon, named after the inventor, but since then it has been renamed several times as diffrent companys have owned it (in most of the world anyway, here in Sweden they're still sold as Dillon - some people has enough sense to not drop a brand name after it has gotten known). First Dillon, then Henrob (not henrod), then Cobra 2000, and now they have combined all three previous names into DHC 2000.

I bought my Dillon torch (the one in my avatar picture) used 7 years ago, and it is my first and so far only welder. Date code on the torch says it was made in 1985. I've never really welded with any other welder so I can't give a side by side comparison, but I really like it and got the hang of using it within a few hours of playing around. It is a bit heavy and the pistol grip is good until you need to get into a tight spot - although if you buy the large kit it includes both a straight and a bent extension that should take care of that most of the time. All the parts can be bought as you need them if you don't get the kit including it all.

I love it and I recommend it. There may be other torches that are equally good or even better out there, but none that seemed to be easily available around here (Sweden) when I was on the hunt and did my research. (The swedish made AGA X11 or X21 is the standard choice here for the farmer who needs something for loosening rusty bolts and straighten bent metal - I'm sure it's great too but built for bigger jobs than I mostly do.)

 

Depends on what you are going to do but I regularly use a Victor Jr. touch and tips. I'm in the refrigeration business and this is my go to set up for small items and sheetmetal. Check a local refrigeration supply house.

Sent from my XT1254 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

Damn, I misspelled the name and I knew it. I just looked at mine and it is a Dillon MkIII. I purchased it used sometime around 1993. I love the torch, but my two biggest beefs with it are, that it can get hot when you have to weld in a confined area without the shield, and I am left handed, and it is a PITA to adjust the gas settings.
All I could find on the body, was that it was patented and made in the USA. I couldn't find a date code anywhere.
Bob

 

My Dillon has "3 85" if I recall correctly, stamped in the brass opposite to the valves (where you probably would want the valves, being left handed). Apparantly, that means it was made in march 1985.

Welding/heating bigger stuff certainly can give you hot fingers. I don't have the heat shield, but it's not a complicated item so the plan is to make one myself. I'll probably get round to that when I need it...

 

Appreciate it guys. I know the hassle with tanks. I own a non branded or unstamped bottle for my mig. Every time I get it filled they try to swap it to their stamped tank. I can fill this at multiple companies. Not sure how Ill do the ox/ac.

Lot of torch recommendations, understandable, everyone has their favorite. Primary use will be gas welding and bodywork, some cutting and heating,

Is a small sized torch handle required for a 00 or 000 tip? What pressures will I be using for gas welding sheetmetal, do I need different regulators.

 

I'll second the comment on Meco Midget. I started out with my dad's set up - and am still using it although I've replaced the torch, hoses, regulators, and of course tanks over the years...

Anyway, his was a full sized torch. Worked fine on larger stuff but I wanted to do mainly sheet metal so I bought the Meco over other smaller torches because I liked how it fit my hand better. Got the lightweight hoses at the same time. Struggled along with the ancient regulators until the one on the acetylene tank failed one day. Should ahve replaced it as soon as I was having issues but kept putting it off.

Next up I'll likley be buying a gas saver for when I start rebuilding the body on my '26.

 

If you're doing a LOT of sheet metal work, you can't beat the Midget! small size and weight are less tiring. Dillon for cutting and doing lead work.

 

I have mig and I'm ok. Have have stick and never use it since I'm not building ships. I have gas and regular torc along with the Dillon, Henrob, Cobra. I will be concentrating on getter MUCH better at gaswelding in the new year.

 

dillon torch you can weld razorblades together its all in the pressure set up love it!

 

If your regulators are still good than yes they will work with any torch.
And your torch handle/ mixer can use small tips if they make them for it.

 

The Dillon , Cobra people recommend 4 psi oxygen and 4 acetyline. I started using this pressure for my other torches as well and I get excellent results for sheet metal.
I use the technique for sheet metal, that the item I am welding should start to puddle after about 10 or so seconds, and I adjust the pressure or change the tip so that I get that comfortable heat. This way, I am not spreading to much heat into the metal. I prefer to change to the next larger tip, rather than raise the pressure.
I guess it is like baking bread, everyone has the temperature they are comfortable with.
There is an excellent book named, "Welders Handbook", by Richard Finch and Tom Monroe, by HPBooks. It has a lot of valuable information on welding.

Bob

 

I have a shield that I can photograph for you, if you need a model. My torch is stamped 3 80
Bob

 

Thanks for the link j-jock, I have been looking for a welder to get started with, I am starting out with nothing. Been thinking about buying a old AC buzz box, convert it to DC and then add tig, then pick up a cheap mig ... and still will need to pick up a gas setup for cutting.
That cobra looks like a great place to start for the beginner, add to it as needed.

Great thread, thanks!

 

Have had a Meco Midget for 20 years of so and would not give it up. Haven't used my Cobra for about that long. Just not comfortable to me. I have stick, mig, tig and several different torches. They all have their used but for sheet metal I like the midget. DOT requires valve inspection on compressed cylinders every 5 years. Don't know how you can get around it.

 

My first welder was a Century 295 amp buzz box, and I converted it to DC by making a full wave rectifier out of 4 humongous diodes each isolated on an aluminium heat sink. It worked fantastic fantastically for 40 years.
I have since bought a couple of welders to replace my old standby, and I sold it a few years ago because I have better options. I bought a Miller Dimension 400 welder, and I also have a Miller Syncrowave 250, because both of these welders are suitable for TIG as well. For doing TIG welding my old box, I had a High Frequency unit made by Linde that did a great job, but I wanted a foot pedal.
Bob