Technical Is there a way to identify a B&M torque converter?

If so, how?
I ordered one from Summit, and went to install it today. It was obvious the box has been opened before, and the bolts that were supposed to come with it were missing. Got bolts, then discovered someone had bogeyed up the threads o one of the holes. Bought the correct tap, and fixed it. Bolted trans in, and when I went to bolt the converter to the flex plate, the holes don't line up.

Pulled the trans back off, and measured the bolt patterns. My flex plate measures 10.75", but the converter measures 11". Upon closer inspection of the converter, I can see that there are two stickers on it, covered in blue paint. What I'm thinking is someone returned the wrong converter to Summit, who then sent it to me. Just trying to get some info since I won't be able to talk to anyone at Summit or anywhere tomorrow.

 

I think B&M stamp their part number on the converter. At least, they used to years ago.

 

I only see one number stamped on the side, and it's not the part number I ordered, and nothing comes up in a search of that number.

 

I would have ring them , right after I found the bolts missing and damaged thread.....

 

All that happened today, so there was nobody to call.

 

well dont let it piss you off , Merry Christmas

 

I've had a few issues with wrong parts recently so I was pretty mad, but I've had a drink and calmed down now. Haha.

 

Almost ALL converter/trans vendors STAMP an ID# into the body of their torque converters. Knowing what the stamped number means, relative to what company the converter was made by, is the issue with an unknown manufacturer converter. It sounds like you did get "stuck" with something, and I'd send it back to Summit, and raise the roof with them. Were there any B & M stickers in the box? Everyone wants their products decals displayed on race cars. Any numbers on it that match what you ordered? Was there any fluid in the converter? If so, it got used, taken out, and reboxed; converters are basically "dry" when shipped. I had a major issue with Banana Torque Conveters of Canton, Ohio in the late 70's. I ordered an 8", 5500 RPM stall converter for my FED, and it took close to 4 months to get it. I got excuse after excuse from them (we're working on it now, it ships tomorrow, it's been sent, etc, etc, etc) and finally got the AG's office of the State of Ohio involved. Got the converter within a week after that, but turned around and sold it (was't going to chance them intentionally messing it up). The guy who bought it was going to use it in a 57 Chevrolet BBC/Powerglide bracket car. He called them, gave them the numbers, they matched it up to ME and MY setup; he then sent it in to be redone for how his car was setup. He never had any problem with it. I'd already bought another converter from another vendor to get my car together. I still have THAT converter, a 10", 4500 RPM stall unit, but I don't remember who made it (???). I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

Yea, I'll send it back and get it worked out. No stickers in the box, and there was some fluid in it.
There is only the one number on it, that I'm not sure what it means, and the painted over stickers I can't read. The box had the right number, but obviously that doesn't mean anything.

 

Sounds like the person who bought it before you KEPT the stickers, and the fluid is a tell tale used sign. Being stickers were painted over makes me wonder if it was a stock converter that had been rebuilt, pulled by the guy before you, he then kept the B & M converter, and put his repainted converter in the box to ship back. B & M would have never have painted over any stickers; the parts would have been clean and blasted before being used in a new converter. Summit got stung by him, they probably would't have looked too closely at the return, and then you got stung by Summit , but they did't know what had really happened. Wonder if Summit can backtrack to the guy? I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

That’s pretty much exactly what I figured happened.
I’ve had some issues with wrong and ill-fitting parts recently, so this is frustrating, but that’s life.


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I’m getting pretty frustrated here. Summit sent me a new one and took the old one back no problem.
Got the new one today and it looks just the same as the other one, and has just the same wrong bolt circle.

So I called the B&M tech line and they were useless. They just said “they are all 10.75 inches, it has to be”. He asked how I’m measuring, and I said from the center of the converter to the center of a bolt hole. He said to “take a caliper and measure a hole, because it has to be 10.75”.
I don’t even know what he meant by that, but I got off the phone as I was on my lunch and a bit frustrated already.

I have measured and remeasured and it is larger. I also compared it to a converter we have laying around at the shop. It all confirms the wrong bolt circle.
I’ll have to check things against my flex plate when I get home, but I’m sure I’ll be disappointed.

Anyone else had this issue?


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What is the part number of the converter, and what engine and flexplate do you have?

 

Summit is so good at taking returns, but the stock er folks who receive them...eh...not so good.

So what happens is say...I buy a TC for my XXXX car, I return it because it doesn't fit...etc..., I repaint my old TC, flush it out...and put it in the box.

Return tag says "wrong part ordered, etc".

So it goes back into stock and get's sent out again.

Pretty sure you got the tail end of someone getting over on Summit.

Has happened to me several times, only inconvenience is my time, Summit has always made it right.

Yes, car-guys scam as much as Nigerians do.

 

Torque converter is 70440.
The engine is a 350 HO crate engine.
Trans is 2001 4L60E
Flexplate, I’ll have to check when I get home, all I remember off hand is that is a GM part, and that I measured that it is a 10.75” bolt circle.


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GM application converters center with the bung into the end of the crankshaft, just redrill your flexplate to fit. There are even flexplates made with oblong converter bolt holes. Just make certain the conveter tangs engage the pump gear tangs, and there's not more than about 3/8" gap after bottoming in the trans and the flexplate. Shim if needed.
I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

What does the bolt circle of the converter in front of you measure?
Dual pattern and even slotted hole flex plates do exist. There's guys with dremeled flex plate holes pushing 1000 hp and more. How accurate are those "slots by dremel" holes

That '01 4l60E would have behind an LS based engine. There's a bunch of weird crossover stuff in those early years. The last years of old style SBC 5.7 with vortec heads were all 3/4 ton up trucks and vans with 4l80E and have a different flex plate, then 02 GM used crank spacers on some engines then later redesigned the converters with PWM. There's long cranks, short cranks, and spacers. Swapping stuff around in those change years is confusing. I'm sure it's confusing to B&M too.

 

yup, that transmission is after my time....

 

This is new territory for me as well.


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ALL our time and territory! I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

The bolt circle of the converter in front of me is 11”.

I took the flexplate off just now when I got home to more easily match stuff up.

Here is the flexplate on the converter I bought that is supposed to have the right pattern.



And here is the hole misalignment.



I brought home the converter at the shop that I measured to be the correct bolt circle, to compare. Here it is matched up with the flexplate.



Holes line up great.



I get that I can open the holes up, but I don’t really like to do that in these applications. Not to mention the fact that if you’re charging in the $430 area, you could at least get your bolt holes right.


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You're trying to use a converter on an engine that it was not originally intended to be used on, aren't you?

 

And trying not to pay for the custom machined unit that is designed for the swap I'd say.

 

Well the trans and converter are for the LS platform, but 10.75" should equal 10.75" should it not?

I don't see why there is a need for a custom machined unit. Everything else fits, the flex plate is a 10.75" bolt circle flex plate, and the converter is advertised as a 10.75" bolt circle converter. Everything else being equal, why is a custom unit required?

 

My guess is that someone somewhere made a mistake, the bolt circle is not really 10.75", but someone assumed it is.

Buying car parts can be tricky. Sometimes you have to make things fit, or understand what is really going on, beyond what is printed in the part description.

 

Here's what's important really important. 1. That the converter is correct for the trans and its controller. 2 that when converter is seated it is the correct distance from flex plate. 3 the nose of the converter seats in the crank and registers correctly. Those are your must have items.
Most of the swap info is going to be the other way i.e. A new ls engine to a older transmission. There's plenty of it and lots of slotted holes. I'd imagine they need to slot an 11" plate to fit the 10-3/4 converters. Try looking up a converter for the original application and finding its bolt circle independent of B&M info. If it is indead 11" then you can make it your personal endeavor to correct B&M.

Now your last must have item is a flex plate that mates it all up. There are flex plates with slotted holes. Your frustration could end right there.

 

Did some research, very light and "surface scratching type"
But the guys bolting an early LS1 to any older transmission (PG, th350, th400, 200 or 700/4l60 simply have to slot the holes in the LS1 flex plate(11.062" BC ) to bolt up the converter with 10.75 bolt pattern. That's what they need to do because the converters aren to the same bolt pattern. Some use different spacers and different applications of flex plates for starter alignment and converter to pump distance but the slotting appears to be consistent no matter what LS1 flex plate is used for older transmissions.

It stands up to reason and the logical process would be reversed such as your situation. The difference would be the LS1 engine guys slot towards the center to fit a 10.75 BC and since you're reversed you'll be slotting towards the outside to fit the 11.062 BC . Makes sense and gets your driveline together. Only B&M can answer for their published info.

When I do LS swaps I use the complete package from the donor, engine, Trans and PCM all with same VIN. It eliminates a lot of bullshit.

 

Not everyone here

 

What are you doing for a controller ?
Are they still stupid money for a stand alone unit?

 

Should a 350 SBC have a flexplate that has the external balance weight on it?